Invocation - By Kings Wild Project - Kickstarter

[vasta41]

B.

[CupcakeBaron]

I vote A. Cartamundi has done an impeccable job with their cold foil registration unlike USPCC with their extreme lack of consistency.

[RichK]

A. Better registration and Metalluxe isn't always 100% accurate (miss spots).

[Gonzalo]

Option A. The results of Cartamundi's cold foil in Montenzi's Ultra deck and Lorenzo's House of the Rising Spade are too awesome to ignore.

[Romeril]

I'm new here, so I just made it through this entire thread, and Jackson, I must say, excellent job, I really like what you've shown us here. That Ace of Spades is magnificent! As for the poll, I do have a deck with Cartamundi's cold foil, and a USPCC Metalluxe deck. I absolutely love Stockholm17's House of the Rising Spade Cartomancer deck. David Blaine's Split Spades with Metalluxe seems to have some issues with detail. I'm unfamiliar with what EPCC can do with cold foil. So, I would have to throw my vote in for option A, Cartamundi. But that's just my two cents, and I am a newbie. Regardless of what you decide to do, I think it looks great and I will be there for the Kickstarter launch!

[Eric Lee]

Considering the amount of detail you're putting into your cards, go with A. Even on their Bicycle metaluxe decks, USPCC have registration problems.

However if it's possible cost wise, maybe do like what others have suggested? A for the foil deck, B for the trad deck but with metallic inks?

[Bradius]

I realized that I hadn't responded to your proposed option. I would suggest Option A. I am a big fan of Cartamundi's cold foil process on playing cards from the few examples I have seen for reasons I have already stated elsewhere. I don't dislike USPCC's MetalLuxe, but it does have consistency issues that really show up on any detailed line work (your kind of design in other words). I am not familiar with EPCC's cold foil process, but right now I think Cartamund's B9 finish is the 2nd best out there next to USPCC. If EPCC could really produce some great coild foil decks (they use the same cold foil equipment Cartamund uses for instance) and could produce them at a decently lower cost, then it might be something to more seriously consider.

[Decknowledgy]

Option A

I think most people have agreed that Cartamundi's quality with cold foil is impressive. I would just like to add that in terms of precision Cartamundi is a step forth in comparison to USPCC. Blain's Gold Split Spades by USPCC, for example, has consistency issues, and USPCC is also not the best in centering its printing as with many other decks. As for EPCC, unless it's Taiwan or else it's a definite NO-NO.

[theCapraAegagrus]

I would remove Option B completely.

I prefer EPCC's stocks to Cartamundi's, but I wouldn't be disappointed with either products, I think.

[JacksonRobinson]

Thanks, everyone for your comments. I'm not trying to be a USPCC warrior but as for their registration with foil my Black Diamond Tally Ho's (that are over two years old now I think) turned out awesome.

I'm waiting to hear back from Cart on final pricing for my project WITH shipping included.

I'm very comfortable with both USPCC and EPCC and know what to expect from them both. If I work with Cart, this will be my first experience with them so naturally, there is a little uneasiness with the unknown.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Thanks, everyone for your comments. I'm not trying to be a USPCC warrior but as for their registration with foil my Black Diamond Tally Ho's (that are over two years old now I think) turned out awesome...

Damn right.

They seem to be getting worse, though. I didn't have too many problems with their printing registration a couple years ago. Since the end of 2016, it seems like almost every deck they've printed (that I've received) is so far off from center AINEC.

From purely visual aesthetics, EPCC is easily the best, for me.

[shermjack]

Option A or C

[sinjin7]

I'm not trying to be a USPCC warrior but as for their registration with foil my Black Diamond Tally Ho's (that are over two years old now I think) turned out awesome.

Well, I am a USPCC homer, that's well known. But I'm always amused by all the bitching about USPCC's registration. USPCC has printed more decks in 2018 alone than EPCC has printed in their entire history of their existence, it's not even close. So when you look at it from that perspective, anytime you print something in such humongous quantities, you're bound to have a few glitches. But the number of decks with unacceptable registration is overwhelmingly outweighed by perfect decks. This is even more true if you demand and pay for Q1 quality control. So when you produce the volume that the USPCC does, you're going to have more lemons that get out in the wild overall, but percentage-wise your odds of getting a lemon is extremely low. The relatively few decks with poor registration that find their way to people are just bitched about more loudly, while the thousands of people who got good decks don't post about it. So it just seems like USPCC has horrific registration issues, but if you look at it rationally, you'll realize you don't have anything to worry about the vast majority of the time. If you have bad luck and you ever do get stuck with a deck with unacceptable registration, you are most likely able to simply contact the seller and receive a replacement deck, this is especially true with Jackson and all the other reputable sellers, so there should be no worries. I apologize for this minor thread hijack.

Getting back on topic, I never heard of, or seen, a Taiwanese/Chinese deck with cold foil. All the foiled decks I've seen from EPCC/LPCC/Hanson Chien/etc... have been hot stamped foil with significant indentations that show through to the other side and with handling issues. It very well may be that the best option is Carta Mundi for the folied decks, and USPCC for the regular decks with metallic inks, but logistically it is much easier dealing with just one printer. While Carta Mundi cold foil is great, I wouldn't consider getting any non-foiled deck from them because the cards stock is so soft.

[Eric Lee]

Well, I am a USPCC homer, that's well known. But I'm always amused by all the bitching about USPCC's registration. USPCC has printed more decks in 2018 alone than EPCC has printed in their entire history of their existence, it's not even close. So when you look at it from that perspective, anytime you print something in such humongous quantities, you're bound to have a few glitches. But the number of decks with unacceptable registration is overwhelmingly outweighed by perfect decks. This is even more true if you demand and pay for Q1 quality control. So when you produce the volume that the USPCC does, you're going to have more lemons that get out in the wild overall, but percentage-wise your odds of getting a lemon is extremely low. The relatively few decks with poor registration that find their way to people are just bitched about more loudly, while the thousands of people who got good decks don't post about it. So it just seems like USPCC has horrific registration issues, but if you look at it rationally, you'll realize you don't have anything to worry about the vast majority of the time. If you have bad luck and you ever do get stuck with a deck with unacceptable registration, you are most likely able to simply contact the seller and receive a replacement deck, this is especially true with Jackson and all the other reputable sellers, so there should be no worries. I apologize for this minor thread hijack.

My apologies for bringing this up again. Sinjin , you bring up a very good point in that USPCC has far more volume compared to the others. However you also have to take into account that USPCC also releases their slight errors via their Bicycle Seconds decks. Not sure what happened with DB's BL seconds, but even for one their high profile individual customers, they had that error at Q1.

I'm not complaining at all about this as it's a great way to reduce waste for slight errors and a great way for budding magicians/cardists and kids to get their hands on a quality decks at 50% the cost. But we should take the volume USPCC handles into consideration when we criticize USPCC with their registration issues.

Anyway, my main point; with hot foiling, USPCC is still trying to get it right. Chris Ramsay had his 1st deck delayed due to the issue of hot foiling right to the edge of the cards which had never been done before at that time. Plus Lotrek also confirms how difficult and complicated is the hot foiling process in his posts about his never-ending quest to achieve foiling perfection. Even then, with his high level of precision, he still had some registration slipping.

So with JR's Invocations having such a high level of intricate detailing, Cold Foil does seem to be the way to go. Montenzi's Neo Wave showed just what was possible with amazing results. Not aware of which EPCC decks are cold foil decks though, so can't say much.

[STLBluesNut]

Standard Silver Edition

Standard-Silver.jpg

Gilded Silver Edition

Gilded-Silver.jpg

Standard Copper Luxe Edition

Standard-Copper-Tuck1.jpg

Gilded Copper Luxe Edition

Gilded-Copper-Tuck1.jpg

Damn! I will choose copper over silver and gold every time. Looks great.

Copper>silver>gold

Sent from my Galaxy 8 using Tapatalk

[TheGentlemanWake]

Option A

I think most people have agreed that Cartamundi's quality with cold foil is impressive. I would just like to add that in terms of precision Cartamundi is a step forth in comparison to USPCC. Blain's Gold Split Spades by USPCC, for example, has consistency issues, and USPCC is also not the best in centering its printing as with many other decks. As for EPCC, unless it's Taiwan or else it's a definite NO-NO.

I'm new here, so I just made it through this entire thread, and Jackson, I must say, excellent job, I really like what you've shown us here. That Ace of Spades is magnificent! As for the poll, I do have a deck with Cartamundi's cold foil, and a USPCC Metalluxe deck. I absolutely love Stockholm17's House of the Rising Spade Cartomancer deck. David Blaine's Split Spades with Metalluxe seems to have some issues with detail. I'm unfamiliar with what EPCC can do with cold foil. So, I would have to throw my vote in for option A, Cartamundi. But that's just my two cents, and I am a newbie. Regardless of what you decide to do, I think it looks great and I will be there for the Kickstarter launch!

Cool to see names i recognize from elsewhere around these forums!

Anyway, If i had my absolute choice... (and In the midst of a similar choice) I'd say Cartamundi. The cold foil is worth the price of admission. USPCC decks are my favorite handling decks, but the cartamundi cards cut and dribble MUCH better due to the slightly thicker stock IMHO. I have also noticed a slight warping and 'clickiness' with some USPCC decks as of late. Honestly if Cartamundi can go back to the stock they used on the Cobra deck release last year (which was my favorite handling of all 2018) then i think they'd hit a homerun. (Incidentally Im pushing to have that be the stock on the Parlour deck)

[JacksonRobinson]

So I have decided (based on everyone's feedback) too move forward with a Cartimundi/USPCC combination project similar to Lorenzo's.

Launch Date: Saturday, Feb 9th @ 12PM Central Time

KICKSTARTER PREVIEW LINK BELOW
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ki ... n=0623de94

Things are very rough at this point and are very subject to change. I have never shared a preview link to one of my Kickstarters before so feel free to leave any comments you might have in the comments section at the top.

Here is the 30,000 ft view of the project at this point then below I go into way to much detail for those that are interested.

Please understand that all information, numbers, and prices could change before launch.

4 Editions

Platinum Standard Edition - Cartimundi / Cold Foil - Minimum of 1000 produced. - $20
Platinum Gilded Edition - Cartimundi / Cold Foil (Same cards as Standard with added silver gilding) - Only 200 Produced. -$32
Copper Standard Edition - USPCC / Copper Metallic Ink - Minimum of 1500 produced. -$16
Copper Gilded Edition - USPCC / Copper Metallic Ink (Same cards as Standard with added copper gilding) - Only 200 Produced -$26

I possibly will have display decks, but If I do they will be in simple Clove St. Press tucks rather than the cheap white tucks. Similar to Pi Standards and upcoming Equinox Standards -$12

Below are the specs copied from the Kickstarter page:

Platinum Edition Production Specs:

• Printed by Cartamundi.
• Printed on B9 Linen Finish.
• A minimum of 1000 will be produced.
• Silver Cold Foil on both the back and faces of the cards.
• Printed in Belgium.

Tuck Case Specs:

• Printed by Clove St. Press
• Printed on premium Neenah Stardream ® Neptune & Pluto 105C Stock
  
  Neptune Paper Specs - https://tinyurl.com/yaytt6bb
  Pluto Paper Specs - https://tinyurl.com/ycpdo5nr
• Hot foil Stamped with Silver and Black Foil
• Embossed to enhance the look and feel of the tuck case.
• Printed in the United States.
• Decks will be hand assembled by the in-house Kings Wild Finishing Team. To ensure the highest quality product.
• Decks will come sealed, individually numbered, and cellophane wrapped.

Platinum Standard Edition Tuck Case

I beat my head against the wall trying to make a more colorful deck but realized it was a creatively a dead end as I originally designed this deck to be very monochromatic and to rely on the graphic strength of the design and line work. I know to some, the more monochromatic color palette will not interest them but I know from experience that I have plenty of time to create a new deck that is built from the ground up to be a colorful cold foil deck. So have patience with me and I promise I won't let you down. I also want to keep the "new" variables with working with a new manufacturer (Cartimundi) and a new process, for me (cold foil) to a minimum to mitigate any unneeded problems.

It is very hard to accurately depict what the cold foil will look like in "Real Life" but basically all of the background areas will be silver cold foil. The Black Line work will be matte and have no shine. The inner area of the court designs will have a silver foil background with a white spot color printed around 50%. This will knock back the 100% foil shine and brightness and create a slightly matte foil on the interior of the design.

PlatinumAoS.jpg (176.65 KiB) Viewed 1914 times

PlatinumCourts.jpg (186.42 KiB) Viewed 1914 times

...More To Come

[Räpylätassu]

I look at this and go "huh, this might just be the best deck Jackson has released so far"

Looks incredible.

[JacksonRobinson]

Copper Edition Production Specs

Card Specs:

• Printed by The United States Playing Card Company.
• Printed on Premium Stock with Air Cushioned Finish.
• A minimum of 2500 will be produced.
• Cards will feature brilliant Copper metallic inks.
• Cards will be traditionally-face down cut.
• Printed in the United States.

Tuck Case Specs:

• Printed by Clove St. Press
• Printed on premium Neenah Stardreem ® Bronze & Copper 105C Stock
  
  Bronze Paper Specs - https://tinyurl.com/yarwzdfe
  Copper Paper Specs - https://tinyurl.com/y9o5mjoq
• Hot foil Stamped with Copper and Black Foil
• Embossed to enhance the look and feel of the tuck case.
• Printed in the United States.
• Decks will be hand assembled by the in-house Kings Wild Finishing Team to ensure the highest quality product.
• Decks will come cellophane wrapped.

Invocation STANDARD Copper Edition

The art for the Copper Edition will rely heavily on my love Metallic Ink (mainly copper) I fell in love with it when doing the Olive Tally Ho deck.

CopperAoS.jpg (119.15 KiB) Viewed 1908 times

[JacksonRobinson]

I also hope to give any Kings Wild Shorts subscribers that back the project edition numbers that match their Kings Wild Short Numbers. I'm not committing to it just yet but that IS my hope. I might even make some special Kickstarter stickers to go on your Kings Wild Shorts certificate somewhere. Not sure yet, still working on major details of the project itself.

[Magic Tapp]

Thanks Jackson - these look amazing. I am definitely in.

[Magic Tapp]

Any chance you could also share the likely reward tiers so that we come prepared? Thanks!

[Decknowledgy]

I'm genuinely impressed by the fact that you've created a new style of court cards which is a departure from the long-running style that has been around for quite some time. Congrats for a new beginning!! I'll be meeting this project at the launch definitely

[daddobrendt]

The monochrome look is not a let down IMO, especially when your new courts are so impressive. Looking forward to this new chapter starting officially.

[Romeril]

I also hope to give any Kings Wild Shorts subscribers that back the project edition numbers that match their Kings Wild Short Numbers. I'm not committing to it just yet but that IS my hope. I might even make some special Kickstarter stickers to go on your Kings Wild Shorts certificate somewhere. Not sure yet, still working on major details of the project itself.

That is going above and beyond expectations! Thanks Jackson!

[theCapraAegagrus]

Sold!

I'll be in for at least 1 of each.

[Cardians]

Sold!

I'll be in for at least 1 of each.

If PipChick was selling damage onions on the side of the road, you'd be sold!

[bluepharm47]

Looks awesome with the foiling, and I'm always a sucker for copper. I understand the focus on the linework (which is amazing) but was also a fan of the blue/red contrast in the original post. Any thoughts on an eventual super-limited edition of that one??

[Bradius]

Thank you for the detailed explanation on the reasoning behind your final design and manufacturer choices. I would love more foil colors, but another time. I am definitely in. Hold some of those gilded decks for me. I have a feeling everything will sell out fast.

[Magistrate1500]

Geez Jackson, how am I supposed to keep up with you? I’m been “creating” playing cards for all of six months and am just figuring out the best ways to recolor a damn deck. They look amazing and I’ll be there Saturday with my wallet out.......again.