Gothica by The Other Self

[kevork]

I wonder who the artist is, if not Nicolae Aaroe or Marianne Larsen.

I am T.O.S. (The Other Self). I have been involved in more than a dozen playing cards projects on Kickstarter, so I know what I am doing. I also continue to learn a lot from each and every project with an open mind.

As an avid backer mysef, I constantly gather extensive experience from both sides of the table. I hate to be in front of the camera, but I love to tell a good story. Only true investigators and seasoned card collectors know my true identity. Instagram foot print.

https://www.instagram.com/_theotherself/

[JacksandJokers]

I wonder who the artist is, if not Nicolae Aaroe or Marianne Larsen.

Could be both!

The FAQ's state "The remainders and surplus from this project will be offered exclusively in Marianne Larsen's online shop", whereas the actual account seems to belongs to Nicolai Aarøe.

[vasta41]

Shipping is atrocious and I'm not a huge fan of one-way courts. But everything else is spot on. I'm in for now!

[STLBluesNut]

the tuck designs are both really good, especially the design and color of the nocturnal (ivory) edition. the description for that tuck does not specifically say embossing. i think it would be missing something if it does not have any.

+100 for bottom tuck seals. i was hoping these would become more popular in the industry but it does not seem to be moving that way.

i like one way courts but the style does not seem to fit the tuck design here. the characters are good, but they do not have the same level of intricate, gothic design.

the card backs have a rather generic scroll work design if it is called that. the ivory edition has great detail, but the black edition looks like they did the outline and forgot to fill it in with the detail.

$10 for shipping isnt great for the set but it brings the total to $18 per deck which is what most decks with these features are going for these days before shipping. i am on the fence on backing because of the courts and backs but will leave a tab open to decide.

[redux]

I believe this is just another account for Isolated Thunderstorm. In my opinion $10 for shipping is cheap!

[Evilgamer]

Miranne Larsen sort of indirectly confirmed who it is in her new ks update.

Also, I want to bring to your attention to my colleague in business The Other Self, that has just yesterday launched a new playing card project “GOTHICA”, funded within hours!

[Fenrir]

The Other Self has always been Nicolai. It is not so secretly in his profile when you click into it, since it is verified through KS.

[laitostarr777]

So basically… it’s three designers under one brand
So they can “all hell breaks loose” with Kickstarter projects

[krystalie]

There is an interesting post on reddit about using AI with regards to this project and some other recent IsolatedThunderstorm decks. You can find it with a quick google of "Nicolai Gothica AI reddit". I am not calling out any artists or attempting to set fires, it just so happens the post is about this campaign. I just thought that the analysis and information in the post can help people learn some quick knowledge about AI generated images as it could be used now in playing card designs.

[Honeybee]

Thanks krystalie - a very interesting read

https://www.reddit.com/r/playingcards/c ... ar%C3%B8e/

[EndersGame]

The article there seems pretty damning. The person who posted appears to have reliable credentials, and describes himself as follows:

"I‘m a graphic designer, photo editor and prompt engineer with over 16,000 generated images under my belt. I am familiar with every stage of AI imagery creation process, from style research and prompt crafting to upscaling and manual editing in post-production. I‘m also an avid playing card and watch collector who values authenticity, creativity and craftsmanship."

The results of his analysis there deserve to appear in this thread, although if you go to the original Reddit post you can see the images in higher resolution.

[kevork]

There are some points highlighted in the art where it's hard to justify why an artist would've made such a decision.

[Disenchanted_11]

I think we should really give the defendant the chance to a statement here, anyone reached out yet?

[laitostarr777]

OH YIKES! These are some hard evidences The Other Self uses AI....
It's a VERY DANGEROUS world we are now living.... creators who CLAIMED to have done things by themselves, and then there are hints they used AI

[Harvonsgard]

That's why it's called The Other Self I guess.
The community never asked for disclaimers for photoshop or other digital programs being used for art but now, after the next generation of programs emerges, a part of the community is so hard pressed to go on a witch hunt. I get that the AI issue is a tad more complicated - due to how AI grabs source material without any credit or consent - than older digital tools but at least from my point of view the ship has sailed long ago. Unless you're willing to not use any Meta and/or Google apps and programs (and other companies involved) and actively push back against the data collection, this evolution can't be stopped. So I for my part have decided to have a lax attitude with AI usage. Doesn't worth the outrage when you're just a Don Quichote fighting wind mills.
I'd still recommend for producers and designers to simply put an AI label on your campaign; with that you take the wind outta the sails of critics easily.

[NIAVLYSYUG]

That's why it's called The Other Self I guess.
The community never asked for disclaimers for photoshop or other digital programs being used for art but now, after the next generation of programs emerges, a part of the community is so hard pressed to go on a witch hunt. I get that the AI issue is a tad more complicated - due to how AI grabs source material without any credit or consent - than older digital tools but at least from my point of view the ship has sailed long ago. Unless you're willing to not use any Meta and/or Google apps and programs (and other companies involved) and actively push back against the data collection, this evolution can't be stopped. So I for my part have decided to have a lax attitude with AI usage. Doesn't worth the outrage when you're just a Don Quichote fighting wind mills.
I'd still recommend for producers and designers to simply put an AI label on your campaign; with that you take the wind outta the sails of critics easily.

I'm perfectly agree with your comments. We collect cards for the joy to look them principally.

[GandalfPC]

No one likes being lied to, and it is honesty more than AI that is in question.

[Harvonsgard]

I'd call bullshit on that. I'd say people just don't like to realize that A) it's easy to deceive them and B) make false assumptions. Most love the lie until they realize it's a lie and when they realize it, they turn to ignorance to cope with their hurt ego because it indeed is painful to know you're being taken advantage of.

[GandalfPC]

That just sounds like the reason people hate to be lied to.

Loving the lie is perhaps a hype related concept, as I certainly don’t love JBP for any lie…

[Harvonsgard]

That just sounds like the reason people hate to be lied to.

Not quite. The lie is alcohol and the realisation is the hangover. People hate the hangover but next weekend they go out and drink again. We would run society not in systems we are currently still doing if most people wouldn't love the lie.

[Adamthinks]

That's a bizarre generalization. People don't like being lied to for all sorts of reasons. Not just because they've been duped. I don't like being lied to, but it's certainly has nothing to do with ego. I just prefer clear communication.

[GandalfPC]

I’m going to watch some Andy Griffith

[manu]

I think we should really give the defendant the chance to a statement here, anyone reached out yet?

In the Kickstarter FAQ:

In regards to AI?

While I leverage many modern tools and sources, for creative inspiration, the core and creation of my art is grounded in the traditional skills I've developed over the many years as an artist and educated illustrator. Everything you see has been produced from start to finish in illustrative software, including Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator.

In the future, Illustrators, designers and artists will not be able to deviate from the usual and expected design path, if everything must be observed in the light of a possible use of AI and not expressive freedom/creativity.

Maybe it's a language barrier, but that statement sounds like it goes out of its way to avoid saying explicitly that they have not used generative AI.

I reached out directly and received a more explicit denial:

The art in this project is not generated with AI but passionalety illustrated and designed in conventional ways.

At this point, its just a matter of trust I suppose. The evidence presented by that Reddit post is compelling (especially the part where the campaign description was changed). But I don't think there's a way of conclusively proving anything one way or another.

[GandalfPC]

And I did ask chatGPT4o yesterday to analyze it - for what its worth - it was entirely unconvinced it was AI

[Disenchanted_11]

At this point, its just a matter of trust I suppose. The evidence presented by that Reddit post is compelling (especially the part where the campaign description was changed). But I don't think there's a way of conclusively proving anything one way or another.

It's on Reddit after all, posted by someome with reliable credentials, all evidence encircled, and all "trust me bro" as sources. What can go wrong?

p.s. UC software acting up again, post keep getting lost after submitting.

[Honeybee]

I wish I could get into Reddit but I just don't like the format

[kevork]

I wish I could get into Reddit but I just don't like the format

It used to be great when third party apps were a thing. And then Reddit locked its API and forced you to use their shitty app as a means to increase their advertising presence and increase revenue.

On desktop, I only use old.reddit.com as I can't stand the new format.

[Honeybee]

Thanks kev - that is better

[Adamthinks]

I wish I could get into Reddit but I just don't like the format

You're better off. Reddit was great 10+ years ago. Great discussions, thoughtful posts, etc. It's a cesspool now.

[Sinecure]

At this point, its just a matter of trust I suppose. The evidence presented by that Reddit post is compelling (especially the part where the campaign description was changed). But I don't think there's a way of conclusively proving anything one way or another.

It's on Reddit after all, posted by someome with reliable credentials, all evidence encircled, and all "trust me bro" as sources. What can go wrong?

p.s. UC software acting up again, post keep getting lost after submitting.

i wasn’t really convinced. I like Nicolai Aaroe but not so much that it would trouble me to accept the analysis if there was a bit more substance to it.

The weird hands, teeth annd hat issues seemed a bit thin. If you were actively trying to conceal the use of AI, why would you leave things so glaringly obvious and easily fixable. Likewise, the ‘Other Self’ pseudonym is hardly concealment when his actual name appears in the contact page.

That said, I thought the changing of the campaign blurb was pretty suss and agree that the crossover vest seemed like a particularly unhuman-like element.

i just figure that an artist with a large body of quality work that predates AI probably deserves the benefit of the doubt if the issues raised are mostly just ‘fishiness’.

I’ll maintain a healthy level of suspicion moving forward but I’m not convinced either way.

Edit: meanwhile, Hoa Phan decks continue to fund