Cartamundi Factory Relocation

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Cartamundi Factory Relocation

Unread post by hsbc »

In recent months, we've faced production and technical challenges at our current manufacturing facility (Turnhout). As a result, we haven't been able to provide the level of service we'd like to, and we apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused. In light of these issues, we've carefully considered our options to ensure that we can offer you the quality and service you deserve. After much thought, we've decided to move ALL European playing card production to our Fournier plant in Spain, starting in January 2024. The Fournier plant is known for its expertise and commitment to crafting high-quality playing cards. By bringing all production operations to this facility, we truly believe we can enhance the reliability and efficiency of our processes, which will ultimately benefit you.

On top of that the quality and capabilities of those in the Fournier plant will be on par or better than what we can offer out of Belgium today. Faster and more reliable cutting with the same clean edge, same board and linen finish you’re used to and a varnish that surpasses the current one in every test. (but more on that later on)

Between now and January, we are experiencing a period where technically, all production is on hold. Several factors, such as capacity limitations, external dependencies, and unforeseen circumstances, have contributed to this situation. We understand the importance of timely delivery and are committed to finding solutions to minimize disruptions to your projects. Despite the production challenges, please be assured that we will do our best to prioritize certain critical projects and push them through, even in these trying circumstances. However, it's essential to acknowledge that finding fixed answers or definitive timelines is just as challenging for us as it is for you at this time. We are actively working on assessing the feasibility of each project and will communicate updates with you regularly. Our team is committed to maintaining open lines of communication and providing any information we can about the status of your projects. As we navigate through these uncertain times, we sincerely appreciate your understanding and support. Please know that we are dedicated to finding creative solutions and overcoming obstacles to ensure the success of your projects.

This decision is all about making sure you get the top-notch service you deserve and holding ourselves accountable for any past issues. Your satisfaction and loyalty mean the world to us, and we're fully committed to providing you with the best products and experiences.

We understand that changes like these can raise questions, and we're more than happy to address any concerns you may have. Please feel free to reach out anytime for any assistance or information you need. Your understanding and support are genuinely appreciated as we work to improve our playing card production and enhance your overall experience with us. We're excited to serve you with even better efficiency and quality from our Fournier plant in Spain.

Hope it makes sense and if you have any further questions, don’t be afraid to reach out!


Jirs Huygen
Global Maitre Cartier
Community Business Development Manager
Anthony of Jocu wrote:...Cartamundi have rather suddenly suspended all playing cards production until further notice.

It is for good reason it seems - it has been decided that all operations at the Turnhout factory will be moved to the larger and better-equipped (for playing cards at least) dedicated factory of Fournier in Spain that was acquired as part of the USPCC merger. Fournier have a rich and top quality reputation for playing cards, and it is part of a larger plan to move production of B9 slimline stock, ie, top of the range Cartamundi cards there.

We are waiting for the official announcement from Cartamundi to be able to answer more questions about what can be revealed or not, but we are excited about their future and I have received many reassurances from various levels at Cartamundi that this is a decision taken with customer care and product quality in mind.

...

...the changes being made have been brought forward to fight some quality control and capacity issues that have been growing over the past few months at Cartamundi and so we are waiting a full statement from them.

I have been reassured that everything will be made clear next week and that we can have a concrete production plan soon.
TheGentlemanWake wrote: Fri Aug 04, 2023 2:13 pm We will have more info soon but as of now Cartamundi has had some massive delays. They are in the process of relocating custom playing cards production from Belgium to a Fournier facility in Spain with ramp up being Jan 2024. ...
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Re: Cartamundi Factory Relocation

Unread post by Bradius »

I was thinking about making a separate thread for this as it impacts a number of playing card projects. I sure hope they can make this transition "quickly" and that the quality doesn't suffer. I am honestly worried as the cold foil they do in the Belgium factory is just peerless. If they can do even better stuff, great. If they can't do what they did in Belgium, that will be very bad. I guess we will just have to wait and see.
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Re: Cartamundi Factory Relocation

Unread post by laitostarr777 »

Bigger place sounds like: Cartamundi can be prepared to accept a lot more of projects to produce. Hopefully the move retains the quality of their cards production, or BETTER than previous location!

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Re: Cartamundi Factory Relocation

Unread post by Jocu »

Hey guys, so Jirs has asked me to post the official statement here for him as he currently hasn't got access.

He has encouraged questions, so feel free to post and he should hopefully be able to answer them in future.

Mods, please could we replace my announcement from Kickstarter in the first post with this one? It is incomplete and this is the official statement from Cartamundi so it makes more sense to use this one.

Thanks!
"In recent months, we've faced production and technical challenges at our current manufacturing facility (Turnhout). As a result, we haven't been able to provide the level of service we'd like to, and we apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused. In light of these issues, we've carefully considered our options to ensure that we can offer you the quality and service you deserve. After much thought, we've decided to move ALL European playing card production to our Fournier plant in Spain, starting in January 2024. The Fournier plant is known for its expertise and commitment to crafting high-quality playing cards. By bringing all production operations to this facility, we truly believe we can enhance the reliability and efficiency of our processes, which will ultimately benefit you.

On top of that the quality and capabilities of those in the Fournier plant will be on par or better than what we can offer out of Belgium today. Faster and more reliable cutting with the same clean edge, same board and linen finish you’re used to and a varnish that surpasses the current one in every test. (but more on that later on)

Between now and January, we are experiencing a period where technically, all production is on hold. Several factors, such as capacity limitations, external dependencies, and unforeseen circumstances, have contributed to this situation. We understand the importance of timely delivery and are committed to finding solutions to minimize disruptions to your projects. Despite the production challenges, please be assured that we will do our best to prioritize certain critical projects and push them through, even in these trying circumstances. However, it's essential to acknowledge that finding fixed answers or definitive timelines is just as challenging for us as it is for you at this time. We are actively working on assessing the feasibility of each project and will communicate updates with you regularly. Our team is committed to maintaining open lines of communication and providing any information we can about the status of your projects. As we navigate through these uncertain times, we sincerely appreciate your understanding and support. Please know that we are dedicated to finding creative solutions and overcoming obstacles to ensure the success of your projects.

This decision is all about making sure you get the top-notch service you deserve and holding ourselves accountable for any past issues. Your satisfaction and loyalty mean the world to us, and we're fully committed to providing you with the best products and experiences.

We understand that changes like these can raise questions, and we're more than happy to address any concerns you may have. Please feel free to reach out anytime for any assistance or information you need. Your understanding and support are genuinely appreciated as we work to improve our playing card production and enhance your overall experience with us. We're excited to serve you with even better efficiency and quality from our Fournier plant in Spain.

Hope it makes sense and if you have any further questions, don’t be afraid to reach out!


Jirs Huygen
Global Maitre Cartier
Community Business Development Manager"
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Re: Cartamundi Factory Relocation

Unread post by TheGentlemanWake »

i received the exact same letter myself.

My takeaway...

I think there are some serious quality control issues hindering production in Belgium.
1)I was forced to reprint 10% of the Successor Tuck Boxes when Cartamundi inadvertently glued the cellophaned cards INTO the tuck boxes. Cartamundi paid for the reprint but I lost 1.5 months of time waiting.
2)We we ordered the Groundskeeper protytpes I was alerted to the following:
"It’s always been our goal to deliver the best possible Cardistry decks, to you, and to all of our clients. But we have recently encountered a setback in our technical capabilities.
We are investigating an investment in a new equipment in the next months. To overcome the period in between, we keep a closer watch on production and QC follow up, for the best possible quality we can guarantee with the existing equipment.
But, this results in slower production/production delays. That standard will differ from what you are used to getting from us in the past. Therefore you will receive the sample deck of what this standard will be, until the new equipment will be installed.
For you, these prototype decks are the standard of what that quality reference is, until we have the new equipment.
We’re working very hard to get things on track and getting close follow up by production and QC on the running orders. Unfortunately this resulted in a delay of the Standard prototypes as well."
The Groundskeeper sample decks had similar foil and finish to previous Cartamundi decks. BUT I could INDEED tell the difference in the bevel edge of the cards. The decks did not FARO shuffle to the ease and fluidity of Successor decks for instance.
3)I order Beetle Backs prototypes the end of May with the understanding that they would take 8 weeks. I was alerted to a delay. Told the decks would be ready Aug 8th. The week of august 8th I asked where the decks were and was told they had not been produced. September was the earliest window given. Two days later I received the form letter statement from Jirs above. Cartamundi is currently on vacation so no additional info has come to bear on Beetlebacks. I am entertaining other printing options. And will ask for a refund if I'm not given a more definitive timeframe. Certainly not waiting until January 2024.

Taking into account all of the above. I think the decision to move to the Fournier plant in Spain was a recent one. Born of mounting issues and potentially faulty or malfunctioning equipment and the resulting diminished capacity. When I asked Jirs about whether or not the quality of the features of the cards (board, finish, varnish, etc) would be the same he replied:
"Addressing your quality concern: I am the one who has put the B9 quality in place in Turnhout and I will also be the one validating the quality in Spain.
We might tweak the quality here and there but for the better. I can be completely transparent: the stock will not change, the cutting will improve as we have a custom built cutting machine in place there that was based off the machine we’re using in Belgium right now, the varnish will also be changed out but for one I had developed to be the natural successor of B9 anyway (more controllable, great glide and much more stable during production) but we’ll make samples as soon as we can to let you judge for yourself. The biggest difference between Spain and USPCC is that the machines in Spain will be built from the ground up, catering to the existing quality, whereas USPCC has their own quality and they don’t budge on that as that is what their customers want."
I Think BUILDING a machine from scratch in Spain to take over WILL TAKE CONSIDERABLY LONGER than the 4 months Cartamundi is touting. There's a pretty big climate shift between Belgium and Spain too. We all know the havoc climate can wreck on playing cards--we can only assume production will have to be dialed in. I hope I'm wrong, and obviously some of my opinion is speculation, but I don't see world where Cartamundi produced CUSTOM cards are being fulfilled worldwide until end of 2024.
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Re: Cartamundi Factory Relocation

Unread post by Jocu »

I don't really see why people are stressing about climate. It's less than 800 miles between Cartamundi and Fournier, and most of the other major factories such as USPCC in Kentucky and WJPC in China have similar climates to northern Spain.

Regardless it's not the third world, they know what they doing and have factories designed to handle such things.

Delays of course are speculative, and could well be longer than January 2024. Whether people wait it out is up to the individual creator obviously.

I'm confident that the only people who really know about machine lead times, card manufacturer humidity, card quality control processes and so on are the ones in charge of the move and certainly not any of us here.

I think one thing all parties agree on, both customers and Cartamundi, is that the quality has not been what it once was and that any move to improve is a welcome one.
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Re: Cartamundi Factory Relocation

Unread post by Adamthinks »

TheGentlemanWake wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 11:46 am Cartamundi is currently on vacation so no additional info has come to bear on Beetlebacks.
They dropped this bomb and then immediately went on vacation?
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Re: Cartamundi Factory Relocation

Unread post by hsbc »

Adamthinks wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 1:51 pm They dropped this bomb and then immediately went on vacation?
Europe sort of shuts down partially for vacation in August
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Re: Cartamundi Factory Relocation

Unread post by PaulF »

Cartimundi acted irresponsibly! You don't just drop the bomb on your customers without warning. You don't just write a letter after the fact and leave everyone hanging in the wind without prior planning and correspondence ahead of time. Clients have money, time, and investment in the current projects. Unless that plant is falling apart and/or unable to meet current obligations, you'd think they would complete existing projects and cut off further orders until the move is completed, all problems resolved, and/or a clear restart date is known. I know very little and I'm relatively new. But China, it seems to me, is producing top, high quality, state-of-the-art cards and boxsets. Their customer service seems highly responsive. And they seem to stay or beat schedule. I've heard nothing but great things about WJPCC. ARK and KingStar to me create and manufacture great products. Why would you stay with a company that has acted so irresponsibly until they have proven themselves once again trustworthy?
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Re: Cartamundi Factory Relocation

Unread post by Jocu »

PaulF wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:26 amWhy would you stay with a company that has acted so irresponsibly until they have proven themselves once again trustworthy?
Speaking personally, and of course other creators will have their own experiences, I have over four years experience of working directly with Cartamundi and with Jirs, the one who wrote the letter and is spearheading the move, through many ups and downs, multiple projects (probably over 100,000 decks by now or more) and both good and tricky times. They've always been able to help me when I needed it and I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt now that they could use some patience on my part.

As a simple starting point, I've promised and pre-sold decks based on them being printed by Cartamundi. So changing a printer there is already a very risky, difficult and frankly unfeasible option unless a huge majority of these customers pushed for a change.

As a business owner my priorities extend beyond profit to environmental, fiscal, linguistic and all sorts of other considerations with almost equal weight alongside things like quality and speed. That puts factories in China probably fourth or fifth on my list of potential suppliers.

For a US producer it doesn't make much difference where you print fiscally, for example, but for an EU producer it has a huge cost, tax and financial impact. Environmentally speaking, Cartamundi and Fournier are the closest world-class factories to us and this enables us not just to reduce those costs but to visit the factories in person when needed to supervise. We couldn't do this with the US or China. We're the only deck artist who create and produce everything within a 1000km radius, and whilst this will soon extend to around 1400km it's still a pretty impressive thing in today's world.

Ultimately through I value the relationship I have with Cartamundi more than a cost saving or a potentially risky switch in factory for the multiple outstanding projects I have with them. Crucially, I have three projects in print with them right now that simply cannot be switched out - they form part of ongoing series (ONDA, Fillide, WOTY) that require consistency with the previous releases (would anyone want an eight-deck series where two of the decks are thicker than the others??)

And ultimately without Cartamundi there would probably be no Jocu. WIth no Jocu there's no Boschiero and Newton. With no Boschiero who knows what would be happening with our Inner Circle and the Patreons of Lorenzo, Thirdway etc who have been able to produce really high quality limited pieces thanks to that relationship?

Finally the reason we're able to work full-time making and selling playing cards is in no small part down to the service and quality they've provided for us over the past four or so years and is a big part of the quality of the decks that we've been able to put out. There's a good reason so few creators are able to make playing cards their sole job, and Cartamundi's flexibility and patience with us as we were growing has helped this become a reality.

I can understand why the few creators left hanging are frustrated, and I can see why some customers would be too. It's now up to us to figure out how to navigate this tricky period with regards to our subscribers and come out the other side with a solution and decks that make everyone happy.

But ultimately all good things are worth patience, and I hope our patience and understanding is repaid with a prompt turnaround from Cartamundi. I'll revisit the situation constantly and if it changes there are still other options, but that's why at least personally I won't be making any drastic changes for now.
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Re: Cartamundi Factory Relocation

Unread post by PaulF »

Jocu wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2023 2:50 amSpeaking personally ...
Thanks for your input. You are one of the very best and I respect your opinion greatly. Always wishing you the very best! 💖
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Re: Cartamundi Factory Relocation

Unread post by Jocu »

PaulF wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2023 3:31 am Thanks for your input. You are one of the very best and I respect your opinion greatly. Always wishing you the very best! 💖
Thank you :mrgreen: I think ultimately we all want the same thing and over the next couple of weeks I hope I can launch a plan to get through this period which will make everyone happy. Whilst the dust settles on the announcement I reckon it's a good time to sit back and reflect on the bigger picture and see if we can use it to our advantage for the benefit of our members, however that might end up looking!

I'm excited either way, nothing like an unexpected obstacle to breed creativity and innovation :)
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Re: Cartamundi Factory Relocation

Unread post by ShuffleUpandDeal »

If they are so concerned about quality perhaps they should get new cutting equipment for their USPC plant so we can get nicely cut cards unlike what we currently get, lol.
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Re: Cartamundi Factory Relocation

Unread post by CCwonder »

ShuffleUpandDeal wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2023 12:26 pm If they are so concerned about quality perhaps they should get new cutting equipment for their USPC plant so we can get nicely cut cards unlike what we currently get, lol.
What's wrong with the way uspcc cuts cards?
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Re: Cartamundi Factory Relocation

Unread post by GandalfPC »

here we go…

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Re: Cartamundi Factory Relocation

Unread post by kevork »

CCwonder wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2023 11:32 pm What's wrong with the way uspcc cuts cards?
For that, you must refer to the fantastic memes brought to you by our very own Rousselle and Gandalf: viewtopic.php?p=235705#p235705
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Re: Cartamundi Factory Relocation

Unread post by CCwonder »

kevork wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2023 1:17 am
CCwonder wrote: Sun Nov 05, 2023 11:32 pm What's wrong with the way uspcc cuts cards?
For that, you must refer to the fantastic memes brought to you by our very own Rousselle and Gandalf: viewtopic.php?p=235705#p235705
I thought that was a registration issue , the plate stamps out of alignment. Are the two one and the same?
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Re: Cartamundi Factory Relocation

Unread post by kevork »

CCwonder wrote: Mon Nov 06, 2023 2:06 am I thought that was a registration issue , the plate stamps out of alignment. Are the two one and the same?
I was always under the impression it was a cutting issue. Perhaps I'm mistaken.
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Re: Cartamundi Factory Relocation

Unread post by Harvonsgard »

Cutting registration and printing registration are two different things. Cards being off-center is definitely a cutting issue. (Hot) Foil being of center would be a stamping issue.
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Re: Cartamundi Factory Relocation

Unread post by davegk »

Not sure if this is related to the delays or not but I just today discovered that Cartamundi is responsible for printing Disney Lorcana cards, which have been in high demand since their official release date of August 18th. So much so that they initiated a reprint of the first edition which was initially expected to become available in January but was moved up and has just reached stores last week. On top of that, they're releasing the 2nd edition this friday...

I don't know how many resources Cartamundi is putting on the Lorcana project but I imagine it's a pretty big account that requires a fair amount of logistics (dealing with card rarities, randomization, collation, foil editions, etc...)
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Re: Cartamundi Factory Relocation

Unread post by hsbc »

It looks like Lorcana cards are printed in the US:
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Re: Cartamundi Factory Relocation

Unread post by ShuffleUpandDeal »

I have no idea who prints those games, doesn't indicate Cartamundi anything on BGG
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Re: Cartamundi Factory Relocation

Unread post by hsbc »

ShuffleUpandDeal wrote: Sat Jan 27, 2024 1:36 pm doesn't indicate Cartamundi anything on BGG
It's rumored, not officially announced -- see also the "CM" in the serial(?) number
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Re: Cartamundi Factory Relocation

Unread post by hsbc »

TheGentlemanWake wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2024 12:08 am There's new information. Cartamundi has NO timetable on gilding. Which obviously is an issue. The new varnish is more sensitive to heat than b9 so the old gilding practices do not work.
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Re: Cartamundi Factory Relocation

Unread post by Adamthinks »

I had a strong feeling this relocation was going to blow up and take much longer than they estimated.
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Re: Cartamundi Factory Relocation

Unread post by Honeybee »

It might be unintentional but Cartamundi are definitely hurting the industry
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Re: Cartamundi Factory Relocation

Unread post by Strag »

They are hurting themselves, but certainly not the industry... unless you mean the niche industry of custom playing card collectibles.

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Re: Cartamundi Factory Relocation

Unread post by hsbc »

With JR having moved most production to Tongheng, TGW considering printing Goldsmith with WJPC, and TWI using King Star soon, I think the center of gravity is shifting towards China
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Re: Cartamundi Factory Relocation

Unread post by Adamthinks »

hsbc wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2024 5:24 pm With JR having moved most production to Tongheng, TGW considering printing Goldsmith with WJPC, and TWI using King Star soon, I think the center of gravity is shifting towards China
TWI has used WJPC on a couple recent decks also, as has S17.
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Re: Cartamundi Factory Relocation

Unread post by crazy_lazy »

TheGentlemanWake wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2024 2:17 pm
I will say that as of now the Cartamundi decks are NO LONGER b9 slimline. Both the varnish (b9) and the paper (slimline) are NO longer as they were. Its an entire new board and varnish/finish.
Apparently this is more than just a setback in gilding…
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