Printer Pros & Cons

[dawn]

EDIT 19/4/19: updated with very basic pros/cons list + more printers

Hi all,

Not sure if there’s already a thread for this (please link if so!), but I was wondering if someone could make a list of pros and cons for common printers? I’ve picked up a few things from reading the forum (e.g. USPCC is generally great but sometimes has registration issues and is on the pricier end for producers), but I think a comprehensive list would help people make educated decisions when buying or backing decks. I’ve included a list of the printers I’ve heard of so far, but I’m sure those more knowledgeable can fill in the gaps.

Thanks in advance!

Playing card manufacturers:
United States Playing Card Company (USPCC - USA)
Pros:
- long history
- good handling
- reliable quality
Cons:
- occasional registration issues
- on the expensive end for producers

Cartamundi (Belgium; Texas USA)
Pros:
- good handling
- cold foil stamping
Cons:
- Texas facility produces poorer quality cards

Legends (LPCC)/Expert (EPCC)/?Hanson Chien - (Taiwan facility)
Pros:
- good as far as I can tell?
Cons:
- producers may use other facilities with inferior quality

Noir Arts (NPCC - Ukraine)
Pros:
- nice tucks
- good for 'artsy' decks?
- cheaper than the likes of USPCC
Cons:
- inferior handling compared to other big printers

MakePlayingCards.com (MPC - Hong Kong/China)
Pros:
- cheap
- easy online interface?
- easy to order prototypes
Cons:
- inferior quality?

Shuffled Ink (Florida USA; China)
Pros:
- ?
Cons:
- ?

Shenzhen Wangjing Printing Co. (WJPC - China)
Pros:
- ?
Cons:
- ?

[hsbc]

There's also Shuffled Ink in the US - Jackson Robinson used them for the beginning of the Kings Wild Shorts

[Harvonsgard]

Correct me if I'm wrong but EPCC uses the same Printer as LPCC in Taiwan. Both are not real printers. Same goes for Hanson Chien, they are just producers.

What I didn't figured out yet is TWPCC (or sometimes TPCC - Taiwan Playing Card Company) which a lot of bombmagic decks refer to (example would be the Fujin and Rajin decks). Question is, If that is the real printer behind LPCC and EPCC or if that is another factory in Taiwan. Would be cool if somebody has some facts on that.

Another detail would be that Cartamundi has a factory in Texas, US aswell. But this is definetly on the con side as much as I heard the only produce inferior playing cards. E.g. the Corona deck is printed in Texas. I don't own cards personally, but didn't heard good news about the quality.

[rousselle]

There's also WJP, although I don't recall what that stands for, and they are China-based. Robert Tomlinson used them for several of his projects, as has Guru, Montenzi, and Elephant.

[dawn]

Thanks for the replies so far! Definitely didn't realise LPCC and EPCC used the same printer . I was doing some googling and it seems like the name of their printer isn't disclosed - only that it's located in Taipei, Taiwan. Not sure if Hanson Chien uses the same printer (although I read some forum posts that people thought his cards felt the same?), or if the printer is actually TWPCC (whose website didn't have much detail).

WJP seems to be Shenzhen Wangjing Printing Co., based in China.

I'll update my original post with the above info, but given my only card-handling skill(?) is a good riffle shuffle, I can't provide much else in the way of pros and cons . If people are interested in providing further feedback I can continue to update the post

[EndersGame]

This is a good list and helpful guide. I can add a few things:

Correct me if I'm wrong but EPCC uses the same Printer as LPCC in Taiwan. Both are not real printers. Same goes for Hanson Chien, they are just producers.

What I didn't figured out yet is TWPCC (or sometimes TPCC - Taiwan Playing Card Company) which a lot of bombmagic decks refer to (example would be the Fujin and Rajin decks). Question is, If that is the real printer behind LPCC and EPCC or if that is another factory in Taiwan. Would be cool if somebody has some facts on that.

TWPCC uses the same printer as LPCC, EPCC, and Hanson Chien Production Company. Bomb Magic is the distributor for TWPCC and the umbrella company. The card-stock and finish of the Hanson Chien decks and TWPCC decks is almost identical to the decks produced by LPCC/EPCC. In my experience, however, their communication is inferior. LPCC and EPCC are both run by native English speakers, and communication is much better.

You also mention Shuffled Ink. I've detailed my experience with them at length here. Their quality and options is very comparable to MPC, and unlike the bigger printers, they don't require large orders with a minimum size of 1000 decks.

WJPC is indeed the Shenzhen Wangjing Printing Co, which is China based. They've been used by both Elephant Playing Cards and Guru Playing Cards, and while their communication and printing options were good, the quality won't match that of USPCC, Cartamundi, or LPCC/EPCC decks. However in the last couple of years their quality has been improving significantly. The fact that they are more affordable, especially for high volumes, makes them a viable choice that should be increasingly considered.

I've also written a lengthy article about creating your own custom deck, which may also serve as a useful reference on some of these things:

https://playingcarddecks.com/blogs/all- ... ying-cards

[Harvonsgard]

Leaves us with the question who is the current/new printer in mainland China that is used by LPCC/EPCC.
Rumor has it that both companies (aka Bill and his buddy Lawrence) were not delighted that TWPCC broke a given promise to work exclusivly with them and therefore ventured onwards to find a new printing company.
Knowing that the world is a village, I wouldn't be surprised if that is actually WJPC (Shenzhen...).
Somebody knows something reliable?

[EndersGame]

Leaves us with the question who is the current/new printer in mainland China that is used by LPCC/EPCC. Knowing that the world is a village, I wouldn't be surprised if that is actually WJPC (Shenzhen...). Somebody knows something reliable?

I don't have reliable info, but also did hear on the grapevine that they're exploring China for printing. But I haven't seen anything come out of WJPC yet that is comparable to the quality out of Taiwan, or are there some playing cards they've produced that matches it? Until they find something that at least matches the quality of Taiwan produced decks, I'd find it hard to imagine that they'd stop using the Taiwan factory altogether.

Rumor has it that both companies (aka Bill and his buddy Lawrence) were not delighted that TWPCC broke a given promise to work exclusivly with them and therefore ventured onwards to find a new printing company.

I've found it very difficult to get clear information about the relationship that TWPCC actually has with other companies; my own inquiries with them haven't been very successful. I do know that they are run by Hanson Bomb, who is the founder of BombMagic, their distributor. I thought that TWPCC was just another brand alongside ones like LPCC/EPCC, and Hanson Chien Production Company (HCPC), and they all happen to use the same factory in Taiwan. Or is this mistaken? They've certainly produced several playing cards under their own label, such as the Raijin & Fujin decks, Casino Royale decks, Cardistry Calligraphy decks, Hidden King decks, and others.

Or are you saying that TWPCC actually owns or runs the factory in Taiwan, and that producers like LPCC/EPCC and HCPC have actually been hiring TWPCC to do the printing work for them?

[Harvonsgard]

Nah. I'm on the same page as you. I used TWPCC as a synonym for "the printer".
I don't know if TWPCC is the actual name of the factory/plant or if it is just another company name like Hanson Chien, LPCC, ...
What I do know, is that LPCC/EPCC are consequently moving business to China and try to avoid business with the Taiwanese printer. I don't know about the regular EPCC decks from Kingswild (e.g. Thoroughbred, General Admission), if they are still printed in Taiwan, but all of KWP's foiled decks (VHS, Holo Tender, Robin Hood, Beowulf) are definitely printed in China and not in Taiwan.

Another intetesting thing would be if Dex Playing cards, who popped up with Lotusinhand and the latest fontaine decks, is a different printer/plant or just another brand that uses the same factory like the others in Taiwan.

[EndersGame]

Another intetesting thing would be if Dex Playing cards, who popped up with Lotusinhand and the latest fontaine decks, is a different printer/plant or just another brand that uses the same factory like the others in Taiwan.

Judging from comments I've seen over on Reddit about the Fontaine decks, and what the stock and handling is like, and how it compares to other playing cards, I'm inclined to think that Dex Playing Cards are using the same Taiwan factory as well.

[Harvonsgard]

... I'm inclined to think that Dex Playing Cards are using the same Taiwan factory as well.

I second this. I just got my hands on the raspberry fontaines. Smell, feel, pattern, tuckbox cut are exactly like the LPCC/EPCC Taiwan decks. So I would assume the same.

[guru]

Nah. I'm on the same page as you. I used TWPCC as a synonym for "the printer".
I don't know if TWPCC is the actual name of the factory/plant or if it is just another company name like Hanson Chien, LPCC, ...

Real name of Taiwan printer is Kuo Kau Paper Products Co. Ltd.

[Harvonsgard]

Awesome info, Sunish. Much appreciated. Now we just need the name of the new Chinese printer that prints for LPCC/EPCC and we're up to date with the current print situation .

[EndersGame]

Real name of Taiwan printer is Kuo Kau Paper Products Co. Ltd.

If this is a correct ID, then this would be their website?

https://www.kkplayingcard.com/en/

[rousselle]

You know... RJ (Tomlinson) had once planned to print some decks with them, but they got skittish because of their exclusivity agreements with Bill Kalush at EPCC and Lawrence at LPCC, so he ended up pursuing WJPCC, instead.

If Bill and Lawrence are favoring the Chinese facility, I wonder if this means that the exclusivity agreement is no longer in force, and KKPPC is now free to do business with people in the US without having to go through Bill....

[guru]

You know... RJ (Tomlinson) had once planned to print some decks with them, but they got skittish because of their exclusivity agreements with Bill Kalush at EPCC and Lawrence at LPCC, so he ended up pursuing WJPCC, instead.

If Bill and Lawrence are favoring the Chinese facility, I wonder if this means that the exclusivity agreement is no longer in force, and KKPPC is now free to do business with people in the US without having to go through Bill....

Yes, the exclusivity agreement may not be in force as Hanson Chien also started using the facility 2 years or so back. I reached out to them in 2016 but was pointed back to Legends at that time. Things may have changed by now.

[EndersGame]

If Bill and Lawrence are favoring the Chinese facility, I wonder if this means that the exclusivity agreement is no longer in force, and KKPPC is now free to do business with people in the US without having to go through Bill....

Yes, the exclusivity agreement may not be in force as Hanson Chien also started using the facility 2 years or so back. I reached out to them in 2016 but was pointed back to Legends at that time. Things may have changed by now.

It's been a while since something was posted in this thread, but the evidence seems to suggest that in the last couple of years more people are using the Taiwan factory (KKPPC), and not just LPCC/EPCC.

Quite a few decks have been appeared on the market in the last couple of years that are advertised as being printed in Taiwan by "Dex Playing Cards", as is evident from this search over at Portfolio52. Just search for "Dex" at your favourite online playing card retailer, and quite a few entries should pop up. Fontaine has printed some decks with Dex, and so have big names like Lotus In Hand.

These are advertised as being printed in Taiwan, and are the same quality/feel as all the other decks we've seen come out of Taiwan from LPCC/EPCC, and also Hanson Chien. So the mysterious "Dex" is at least one other name to add to the mix of those who are apparently using printing services in Taiwan at KKPPC.