SINS - Thirdway Industries

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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread post by hawk199 »

Thirdway Industries wrote:Hehe I was kidding about the name - but I considered to change my logo with a tiny snake. However, for now I'll keep the "Stamp logo".
Snakes would be nice touch, if it's visible / doable :o maybe on the extra/ gaff card?

Edit didn't fully read the post
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread post by ecNate »

Heads Up!!! '' EB now available - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/th ... ying-cards

*EARLY BIRD* SINS LIMITED TRIDENT

One (1) SINS Corpus
One (1) SINS Mentis
One (1) SINS Anima Limited Edition FREE
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread post by Thirdway Industries »

ecNate wrote:Heads Up!!! '' EB now available - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/th ... ying-cards

*EARLY BIRD* SINS LIMITED TRIDENT

One (1) SINS Corpus
One (1) SINS Mentis
One (1) SINS Anima Limited Edition FREE
Already gone ;)

@Hawk - Yes it will be an extra snake-joker :D
Thirdway Industries shop > https://www.thirdwayindustries.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread post by Thirdway Industries »

If you love coins, check the latest update ;)

> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/th ... ts/1814186" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread post by flashcards »

I'm going to be dropping my Sins Limited Trident pledge. If anyone would like it, contact me by PM and we can arrange a time for the transfer. Thanks.
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread post by Mischievous »

Good project.
Excellent decks.
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread post by Thirdway Industries »

@Mischievous - Thank you! And sorry for my uber-late reply :roll:

For all carat Card Cases lovers, like me, I released a new cool item :
carat_snake5_mini.gif
I also unlocked the inner foil on all decks >> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/th ... ts/1828889" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Few days left and, as always, no Backerkit and no predorders on all limited stuff :-)

Thank you for the huge support, I know that there are a lot of backers from UC!
Thirdway Industries shop > https://www.thirdwayindustries.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread post by Thirdway Industries »

Thanks to all UC SINS backers :-)

SINS is my best project so far, I'm very happy and grateful for all the support! I know many backers are from UC.

I just published some deals on http://www.thirdwayindustries.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for celebrate - and if you missed the project, SINS Mentis & SINS Corpus are available for preorder.
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread post by EndersGame »

Congratulations on an outstanding series of decks, Giovanni, and a terrific result with this Kickstarter.

I think the symbolism and creative thought that has gone into this design is superb - see my pictorial review here.

Well done sir!
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread post by Thirdway Industries »

Guys a little news (probably you saw the update) - We'll use high resolution foil for SINS - I saw some pictures and are amazing. It means the foil on these should be accurate almost like ink. It's a new EPCC feature, they suggested me to do that since SINS tucks are very intricate - I waited to reveal this earlier since I wanted to be sure we can made it happens. So far I am very happy, and I should have much more pictures during the next week.
d9391723f09bd170f412b30ff131e03c_original.jpg
d9391723f09bd170f412b30ff131e03c_original.jpg (107.69 KiB) Viewed 1625 times
Don't mind the foil registration, it's an issue we'll fix in the real product.

I'm also producing Lost Eden Cases (a little surprise there will be revealed in the next days, probably) and coins (that are produced but stuck in the IT custom. Probably they was scared by black coins with sinful ladies on the front :evil: )
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread post by Thirdway Industries »

Hello guys - if you read the last update you should have noticed that SINS will be printed in the Chinese factory of EPCC, with JN Finish (Skull&Bones).
The long version is in the update, with pictures and videos > https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/th ... ts/1906739" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I decided to use Chinese Factory when SINS project ended - it was much easy for me keep the production all in China instead do Chinese Boxes / Taiwanese Cards like I did for Dedalo and Pantheon.
Also EPCC promised that the quality would be the same of Taiwan, or better (especially on metallic inks). They always did an awesome job with my boxes (check Dedalo/Pantheon if you have them) and I think they did their best with SINS boxes.

I saw many comments about the Chinese factory cards, and I waited to say my version only with physical proofs in my hands. So, here is my 2 cents:

- Printing is over the top - perfect registration, awesome colors/definition, and, as promised, better metallic inks - those ones will shine for real! This is a professional opinion of an experienced Art Director.

- About the handling, I am not an expert here. I can say that EPCC used the same paper (european) of Taiwan Master Finish and the same materials. The effect, anyway, is a bit different, since Master was a little more "oily" than JN - don't think if it's better or worse, probably it's subjective - I don't think the cards feel bad or cheap at all.
EPCC also sent me some other Chinese factory decks with SINS. They all use the same finish, but in my humble opinion, they feel a little different than SINS physical proofs.

EPCC is very proud about the finish, they said there are many magicans (especially one, very famous) who gave them an excellent feedback.

So far I am very happy with the product, and I did my best to share it with you with videos and pictures. Feel free to ask me anything if you have questions, I'll do my best to give you answers.

A thing I don't like of the new factory is that the process is slower than I expected, and we're a bit late - I expected a faster delivery than China+Taiwan. I hope they can improve on this point, I hate being late!
The new ETA for SINS is late August (I am going to approve the next week, then they need 3 weeks to finalize the decks, a month to ship them in USA and finally we can start shipping to backers).
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread post by RichK »

Gio,

I know the video doesn't do justice to the real thing but in the video the entire card looked all shiny, hiding the metallic ink shine. Is that just a video flaw and the metallic ink does shine? Thanks.
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread post by jerichoholic »

I hope the quality will be much better than Legal Tender but sadly the Chinese factory has yet to produce a deck with good quality.
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread post by guru »

jerichoholic wrote:I hope the quality will be much better than Legal Tender but sadly the Chinese factory has yet to produce a deck with good quality.
Let me tell a secret...I know people r hell bent on Jackson for Legal Tender but he was upfront about getting decks printed from Chinese factory, and similarly, Gio has also updated here about Sins being done by same factory.In the same vein, Jody Eklund's new deck like TITANS Robber Baron is done at Chinese factory and he mentioned it on the campaign page from the start.

That being said, there is a popular deck which says Made in Taiwan but, it was printed in China. The creator never came onboard in any forum whatsoever, and everyone is always going to be under the impression that the deck was done in Taiwan and not somewhere else. Fact of the matter is that I've seen reviewers liking the finish n handling of this deck ;)
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread post by Thirdway Industries »

@Rich - Yes, my video isn't good - probably too much light. The metallic inks are very shiny (similar to Theory11 decks) - the cards themselves are normal, they shine a lot because they're put in plain light.

@Victor - I think there is diffidence about Chinese factory, so I think that some opinions I read are influenced by that.
I tried to give objective facts and not opinions: The chinese factory is very good at printing, I can tell this for sure and I have an objective evidence - take a look to my pics, registration is perfect and also are the colors (my pics aren't good, but I hope they can give a good idea). From this point of view I think we're talking about "top quality", probably better than Taiwan, considering metallic inks.

About the materials, the paper is exactly the same of Taiwan (from Europe fyi) so the only differences are in other part of the process (maybe coating, I have no idea).
Said this, it's also objective that the chinese JN finish is different than Taiwanese one. I can't say if it's better or worst - maybe it's just different.

I also think that the proofs I have feel different than Legal Tender (I have it as well) and slightly different to Skull&Bones, despite they use the same finish. It may be due that I use Pantone colors instead CYMK (again, I'm guessing, I have no idea), or maybe the Chinese factory is changing some part of the process after print some decks. They are relatively new, but on the other side, consider that EPCC is working closely with them to have the best quality possible.

Said this, I hope you'll like SINS when it will be made :) We're doing our best to made a great job, really.

@guru - Oh I would like know what deck it is :)
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread post by guru »

@Gio - You're right about diffidence. It is always difficult to change perception, and so I believe the confidence in Chinese factory will evolve gradually.

The pictures in your latest update looks good, and I hope and wish the final product amazes everyone here. Good luck!!!
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread post by sinjin7 »

guru wrote:Let me tell a secret...I know people r hell bent on Jackson for Legal Tender but he was upfront about getting decks printed from Chinese factory, and similarly, Gio has also updated here about Sins being done by same factory.In the same vein, Jody Eklund's new deck like TITANS Robber Baron is done at Chinese factory and he mentioned it on the campaign page from the start.

That being said, there is a popular deck which says Made in Taiwan but, it was printed in China. The creator never came onboard in any forum whatsoever, and everyone is always going to be under the impression that the deck was done in Taiwan and not somewhere else. Fact of the matter is that I've seen reviewers liking the finish n handling of this deck ;)
I don't know what your basis is for making these comments. You just said Jackson was up front about Legal Tender being printed in China? Are you serious? He made no mention of printing in China on his campaign page. His campaign ended back in August 3, 2016. He never made any reference to these being printed in China until February 2, 2017 - that's six months AFTER his campaign ended!!! And even that reference to China printing was ambiguous. And while the Legal Tenders were most definitely printed in China, his tuck boxes state they were printed in Taipei, not China or PRC! Throughout this whole campaign, Jackson hasn't been up front about almost anything: not the foiling, not the delivery date, and most definitely not about the printer in China.

Gio stated he would use either the USPCC or EPCC during his campaign. Sins ended on March 19, 2017. Three days later on March 22, Gio informed us he would print with EPCC. We didn't find out about him printing in China until June 16 - that's three months after his campaign ended. But at least Gio was crystal clear about printing in China, and he gave us a detailed explanation into the reasoning for switching to printing in China. Whether this works out for him still remains to be seen - more on that below.

Jody did, in fact, notify us he was printing in China right from the beginning of his campaign, but that was near the very bottom of his campaign page in the Shipping section, not in the Deck Features section in the heart of his campaign page. Nonetheless, I'll give Jody credit for his disclosure right from the start instead of months after he's already received our money after the campaign ended.

With all due respect to all the YouTube reviewers out there, and there are some excellent ones, none of them are serious cardists, so I'll take their opinions about finish and handling with a pinch of salt. Just because a reviewer opined that a Chinese printed deck inside a tuck that's mislabeled as printed in Taiwan handled just fine for them isn't conclusive of too much for me. I'll trust what my hands tell me more so than any non-cardist reviewer out there.
Thirdway Industries wrote:Hello guys - if you read the last update you should have noticed that SINS will be printed in the Chinese factory of EPCC, with JN Finish (Skull&Bones).

EPCC is very proud about the finish, they said there are many magicans (especially one, very famous) who gave them an excellent feedback.
I think its a red flag that most of the feedback from Jackson's Chinese printed Legal Tenders have been negative to varying degrees (in terms of finish and overall quality, not the art). Even the relatively few positive comments have still conceded that its not as good as other EPCC decks. As I have stated before, China has been able to print a decent deck (and please note, I say decent, not excellent). The Legends series are decent. But after this whole Legal Tender fiasco, I question the consistency and quality control of the Chinese printers. I know for first hand fact that there are some who have received poor quality finished decks bordering on unacceptable, and from second hand knowledge based upon comments on Jackson's own Comments Section on his KS campaign and from posts here at UC that many others have also received decks poorly finished to varying degrees. Yet based on a very few posts here at UC and on the Legal Tender comments section, and from direct communication from Jackson himself, there appears to be a number of good quality decks that fall within the range of other Taiwanese printed EPCC decks. What that tells me is that Chinese printed decks aren't consistent and uniform in quality, so it may be hit or miss whether we get a good deck or a bad one.

For Gio's sake, I hope his Sins decks come out with consistent quality from the Chinese printer so that everyone gets a good deck, otherwise it'll get ugly for him like it did for Jackson. And please, make sure the tuck boxes state the cards are printed in China, not Taiwan. You don't want to mislead anyone with such false advertising, and you definitely don't want to run afoul of laws governing the merchantabilty of goods sold in the United States.

I know that Bill Kalush/EPCC/LPCC has been in contact with David Blaine about producing a deck for him. But what a magician requires of their decks are very different from what cardists require in terms of the physical qualities in a deck. And its worth noting that, as of now, the only decks Blaine has chosen to bear his name has been printed by the USPCC. Of course EPCC is going to say their proud of their finish. They're so proud of their finish that they're constantly re-working and changing it year after year. :roll: EPCC/LPCC was supposed to be cheaper, faster, and better quality than the USPCC. Oops. Its now come to the point where I don't know if I can trust the quality of a deck from EPCC/LPCC, or even whether its printed in Taiwan or China.
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread post by montenzi »

I backed SINS and I don't really care where this deck will be printed ;) Love the artwork and details on the tuck. The story is simple - USPCC is unable to produce good tuck boxes so when you buy an expensive deck with foiling and embossing applied on top of a plain and cheap peace of paper ... well. I have one from the latest releases and it will be the last deck from USPCC with "options". Plain decks? No problems, I'll buy. And I don't think cardistry uses such smart art decks :ugking: Most of them are kids. They need something plain, simple and overprices :ugdance:
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread post by sinjin7 »

montenzi wrote:I backed SINS and I don't really care where this deck will be printed ;) Love the artwork and details on the tuck. The story is simple - USPCC is unable to produce good tuck boxes so when you buy an expensive deck with foiling and embossing applied on top of a plain and cheap peace of paper ... well. I have one from the latest releases and it will be the last deck from USPCC with "options". Plain decks? No problems, I'll buy. And I don't think cardistry uses such smart art decks :ugking: Most of them are kids. They need something plain, simple and overprices :ugdance:
I think its very interesting that the most ardent supporters of China-printed decks are. . .people who print decks in China themselves. Not exactly the most impartial opinions. :roll:

And to say the USPCC is unable to produce good tuck boxes is somewhat ignorant. Jackson's Fed52 tucks are fantastic. T11 makes some of the most exquisite tuck boxes in the industry, and everyone of their decks are USPCC produced. These are just a few examples, but sufficient.

As to your final comments about cardists, it's downright ignorant and speaks for itself about your state of mind, no further comment is needed.
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread post by montenzi »

sinjin7 wrote: And to say the USPCC is unable to produce good tuck boxes is somewhat ignorant. Jackson's Fed52 tucks are fantastic. T11 makes some of the most exquisite tuck boxes in the industry, and everyone of their decks are USPCC produced. These are just a few examples, but sufficient.
Sinjin7, http://www.studioonfire.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - they produce all tuck boxes for T11. Same for Artofplay - they outsource some here http://www.clovestpress.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread post by EndersGame »

sinjin7 wrote:Gio stated he would use either the USPCC or EPCC during his campaign. Sins ended on March 19, 2017. Three days later on March 22, Gio informed us he would print with EPCC. We didn't find out about him printing in China until June 16 - that's three months after his campaign ended. But at least Gio was crystal clear about printing in China, and he gave us a detailed explanation into the reasoning for switching to printing in China.
Got a link where we can read this, for the benefit of those who haven't been following this closely?

For those decks printed in China, is the name of the printer known, or is that all hush hush?
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread post by RichK »

EndersGame wrote:
sinjin7 wrote:Gio stated he would use either the USPCC or EPCC during his campaign. Sins ended on March 19, 2017. Three days later on March 22, Gio informed us he would print with EPCC. We didn't find out about him printing in China until June 16 - that's three months after his campaign ended. But at least Gio was crystal clear about printing in China, and he gave us a detailed explanation into the reasoning for switching to printing in China.
Got a link where we can read this, for the benefit of those who haven't been following this closely?

For those decks printed in China, is the name of the printer known, or is that all hush hush?
It was at the bottom of the project page.
I have chosen two possible companies for print SINS. One is Expert Playing Card Co, the producer of all my previous decks. The other is The United States Playing Card Company. Both are awesome companies who'll guarantee the best quality possible for SINS.

I will make my decision when the campaign will ends. There are some variables that may influence my choice, however I will guarantee that I will pick one of those two. Other companies are not an option for SINS.
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread post by Thirdway Industries »

@Sinjin - I never said "Printed in Taiwan", I just said EPCC - and that was and it’s true. It was useless specify this in March since there wasn’t physical proofs about Chinese Factory decks, so no one, me included, would have the chance to evaluate the difference.

SINS boxes will have, of course, “China” below them - the truth :-)

About Legal Tender - I don’t wish talk about other people projects, there is a long thread elsewhere for that. But I can say there are deep differences between mine and Jackson’s projects. I think, despite the same finish, the cards feel different. Boxes are made in different places. And I see that many negative comments are related to missing features/delays of the deck, not only about the finish. On this point, I can confirm that SINS decks will have all the promised features, plus an important one: the High Res foil. This is a true upgrade (it costs more) and it’s a big difference to low res. Fyi, High Res foil is possible only in Chinese factory at the moment.

Finish is, in fact, very important to me - but it’s not the only important point of a quality deck. Registration, printing, metallic inks and an awesome box are important points for me as well, and when I picked China over Taiwan, my intention was improve those points (and I think I nailed it). I can’t guarantee you will like SINS finish, but I can guarantee at least we’re doing our best on that, using the same materials of Taiwan.

About the consistence, I’ll ask EPCC - thanks for point this out, it may be useful. I hope that, if there was this problem on Legal Tender, they managed to fix it.

Also I don’t agree with you about the youtubers opinions are not worthwhile on finish - for me, all opinions are important - yours included.

Of course I need to defend my choice to print in China - otherwise I would have printed somewhere else ;-)

Anyway - consider that I’m trying (as other creators, I suppose) to make great products - I am not a big company and I am of course very worried about that any problem can occur to my projects (don’t think I took this choice easily - I talked with EPCC for days about this before decide and I was not sure until the very end - they probably hate me now) - on the other side, for innovate sometimes we need to take choices and risks. I hope this choice will be, in the end, a good one and everyone will be happy.

I see you’re very interested about this topic, so I assume you’re a big SINS Backer - for this, thank you in advance and I hope that you’ll be happy with the final product - at least for the rest, if you won’t like the finish :)

@Montenzi - Thank you for the kind feedback :-)
I love USPCC too - in fact I am making Eva with them (with boxes made by Clove St) and so far I am very happy. I think USPCC and EPCC are different, but both great. I will continue working with both for my next projects!

@Endersgame - all on my project page, with open updates > https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/th ... ying-cards" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

@RichK - Thank you :)
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread post by jerichoholic »

Sunnish which deck was it you said was actually printed in China and got good reviews? No reason to keep it a secret.

The comment about the Youtube reviewers is accurate, most of us are not cardists but I think we can still tell if a deck spreads or fans good or not. Some of the made in China decks, like the recent Hong Kong, the Do You Want To Change Your Mind deck, and also Legal Tender have not been the best quality among others.

I also disagree about the comment about USPC not producing good tucks, that obviously isn't true, even if they do outsource some of that, they are still USPC produced. I find it odd that creators like Gio are using the Chinese factory to print tucks and the Taiwan factory to print decks and yet the Chinese factory apparently can't consistently make good quality cards.
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread post by EndersGame »

EndersGame wrote:
sinjin7 wrote:Gio stated he would use either the USPCC or EPCC during his campaign. Sins ended on March 19, 2017. Three days later on March 22, Gio informed us he would print with EPCC. We didn't find out about him printing in China until June 16 - that's three months after his campaign ended. But at least Gio was crystal clear about printing in China, and he gave us a detailed explanation into the reasoning for switching to printing in China.
Got a link where we can read this, for the benefit of those who haven't been following this closely?

For those decks printed in China, is the name of the printer known, or is that all hush hush?
Thirdway Industries wrote:@Endersgame - all on my project page, with open updates > https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/th ... ying-cards" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Which Updates should I be reading? - there's 17 of them :)

For the record, the bottom of the project page does say this, which seems quite transparent about Giovanni's intentions:
"I have chosen two possible companies for print SINS. One is Expert Playing Card Co, the producer of all my previous decks. The other is The United States Playing Card Company. Both are awesome companies who'll guarantee the best quality possible for SINS. I will make my decision when the campaign will ends. There are some variables that may influence my choice, however I will guarantee that I will pick one of those two. Other companies are not an option for SINS."
EPCC/LPCC normally prints in Taiwan, but some of the EPCC/LPCC decks (e.g. LPCC's Emerald finish) are printed in China, if I'm not mistaken.
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread post by sinjin7 »

EndersGame wrote:Which Updates should I be reading? - there's 17 of them :)
All of them, that's the only way to get an accurate timeline.
Thirdway Industries wrote:@Sinjin - I never said "Printed in Taiwan", I just said EPCC
EndersGame wrote:EPCC/LPCC normally prints in Taiwan, but some of the EPCC/LPCC decks (e.g. LPCC's Emerald finish) are printed in China, if I'm not mistaken.
Both of you are correct, but I suspect that most, if not all, backers were under the impression Sins were going to be printed by either the USPCC or the Taiwanese EPCC printer. By the way, I'm not faulting Gio on this, he told us he would choose the printer later. And once he chose the Chinese printer, he was very clear about that fact and wasn't misleading anyone, and he gave all his reasons for going with China, as is his right to do so as the deck designer and producer.
Thirdway Industries wrote:About Legal Tender - I don’t wish talk about other people projects, there is a long thread elsewhere for that. But I can say there are deep differences between mine and Jackson’s projects. I think, despite the same finish, the cards feel different.
And here is the potential conundrum with EPCC China - despite the same finish, the cards feel different. Why is that? Shouldn't it feel the same? Shouldn't there be some consistency you can bank on when it comes to EPCC's finish? Let's even forget about whether Legal Tenders with the same finish as Sins should feel like Sins, shouldn't Legal Tenders feel like other Legal Tenders? What we are seeing instead is some Legal Tender decks fanning like crap, and apparently there are other Legal Tender decks that fan adequately within the tolerances that we've seen from past EPCC decks. Hopefully Legal Tenders is an isolated print run from EPCC China and that future decks printed at EPCC China, like Sins, will have better consistency and feel the same.
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread post by EndersGame »

What's the official name that EPCC is giving for the finish they are using at the Chinese factory for SINS, Legal Tender, Robber Titans, and other decks produced there?

Over in this thread, it is reported that EPCC is using two new finishes, called JN Finish (similar to Master finish, but feels different), and Stud Finish, which they describe as follows:

JN Finish:
The new JN Finish. This represents our constant efforts to duplicate the venerable Jerry's Nugget Casino cards from the '70s. Probably we, nor maybe anyone else, can get closer. These are very similar to the Master Finish cards that are so popular but these are crushed .01mm thinner and you can feel it.

Stud Finish:
Our new Stud Finish. Very soft and pliable. We think they are the softest high quality cards on the market today.


Is it one of these that will be used to produce SINS, or something different?
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread post by Thirdway Industries »

@Sinjin - My opinion (that might be completely wrong) is that the Legal Tender CYMK colors, combined with JN finish, have a different effect than Pantone + JN Finish I used on SINS.
CYMK are 4 layers of colors - and Legal Tender is very colorful, Pantone is just one layer per color . I have the impression that the SINS proofs I have feel a little more "natural" - but it might be just an impression :)

@EndersGame - SINS uses JN finish :)
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread post by RichK »

Can we give Gio the benefit of doubt before we say SINS won't fan, faro, etc. until we get them in our hands please. He was up front in saying EPCC vs. USPCC and if China has better registration and better metallic foil I'll be happy with that. I'm no cardist and can't fan a deck for crap anyway so I don't know how my Legal Tender handle.

Everyone has made valid points. And we all want the best SINS deck. Let's wait and see what the final outcome is then we can praise or bash Gio.

Thanks. :)
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread post by Bruno »

Now come on Rich, if I want to rail against steady, incremental improvement, then speak against the better interest, and advocate for gradual degradation and steady decline, upholding entitlement and the status quo, then there is not much nowadays you can do to stop me and make me think of the alternatives. In fact, if I just keep rabbiting on and throwing distraction about, eventually your eyes will droop, you are getting sleepy, you wish to have a nap but you cannot, you must put out the trash, you must get ready for the next deadline, you must not remember what the heck was the point I was going to make again ................

Edit.
That should be steady degradation and gradual decline, but nevermind, you'll love them, don't you worry about that, they're awesome ....
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