Skull & Bones - Sample Editions with New Finishes

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Skull & Bones - Sample Editions with New Finishes

Unread post by PrincessTrouble »

CARC has a couple of sample editions of Skull & Bones up on their site demonstrating their new JN (Jerry's Nugget) and Stud finishes.

JN Finish:
The new JN Finish. This represents our constant efforts to duplicate the venerable Jerry's Nugget Casino cards from the '70s. Probably we, nor maybe anyone else, can get closer. These are very similar to the Master Finish cards that are so popular but these are crushed .01mm thinner and you can feel it.

Stud Finish:
Our new Stud Finish. Very soft and pliable. We think they are the softest high quality cards on the market today.

Both versions:

Jet Black Soft Touch material for a sturdy and beautiful tuck. Great to the touch and also firm and stable.

Embroidery on the tuck! This amazing new feature dreamed up and executed by our good friend Lawrence Sullivan at Legends Playing Card Co. adds a whole new dimension to tuck boxes.

A new level of metallic inks. The golds are very gold and the faces are all metallic.

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Re: Skull & Bones - Sample Editions with New Finishes

Unread post by badpete69 »

Thanks for the info
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Re: Skull & Bones - Sample Editions with New Finishes

Unread post by Azid »

Thank you PrincessTrouble ;)
These are very limited.. only 325 (for sale) of each.
Ordered both versions and i'm very curious how these feel.
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Re: Skull & Bones - Sample Editions with New Finishes

Unread post by vasta41 »

badpete69 wrote:Thanks for the info
Says the guy who's not collecting anymore :roll:
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Re: Skull & Bones - Sample Editions with New Finishes

Unread post by MagikFingerz »

Would really like to try these, but $15 to ship 2 decks? Yeah, no.

I'll just wait till they make some cheaper versions.
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Re: Skull & Bones - Sample Editions with New Finishes

Unread post by badpete69 »

vasta41 wrote:
badpete69 wrote:Thanks for the info
Says the guy who's not collecting anymore :roll:
Damn I cant even make a comment without being accused of buying hehehe
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Re: Skull & Bones - Sample Editions with New Finishes

Unread post by guru »

PrincessTrouble wrote:CARC has a couple of sample editions of Skull & Bones up on their site demonstrating their new JN (Jerry's Nugget) and Stud finishes.

JN Finish:
The new JN Finish. This represents our constant efforts to duplicate the venerable Jerry's Nugget Casino cards from the '70s. Probably we, nor maybe anyone else, can get closer. These are very similar to the Master Finish cards that are so popular but these are crushed .01mm thinner and you can feel it.
I was also looking to use the name "JN Finish" and Expert beat me to it. It is absolutely fine, btw. But, let me point out why it is difficult to replicate same finish now. The first and foremost characteristic of those cards is the stock used. It was thicker than other regular playing cards during that time (1968-1970). Secondly, there was no such law to use a high post-consumer recycled content in the paper as is there today. They were one-sided embossed using cotton rollers. Finally, a dip coat technique was used to finish the cards. This combination makes it difficult (and almost unattainable) to replicate the finish. For more background, please feel free to check this in case you don't a real Jerry's Nugget deck.

http://www.leeasher.com/store/playing_c ... cards.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"

Also as per the website,"They are stiff, hold their form, and are easily manipulated. Because they are a bit thicker than a regular playing card, they tend to strengthen your hands when practicing with them."

If you own Divine Art deck, you will notice some of the similar characteristics, "thick stock, stiff, one-sided embossing".

Lastly, I'd be placing an order for the JN finish deck to see what Expert has done here.
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Re: Skull & Bones - Sample Editions with New Finishes

Unread post by serubi »

Conjuring Arts refuse my card for some reason. I really like this deck :(
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Re: Skull & Bones - Sample Editions with New Finishes

Unread post by Azid »

Got my decks yesterday.

Both decks have the Expert playing card faces (like superior brand) but slightly modified and with gold metallic inks and darker colors for red and blue.

I'm by far not an card handling expert but with these 2 decks you can clearly feel the difference about playing card stocks and finish.
The JN Finish has a stiff stock and slight embossing similar to the Superior brand decks
(http://www.portfolio52.com/deck/4047/view" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), fans and spreads quite nice.
The Stud Finish has a super soft stock and much deeper embossing (don't know any other deck like this, I love that soft stock!) but unfortunately this doesn't fan good in any way.

I can't tell you if the JN Finish feels like original Jerry's because i didn't ever hold one of these in my hands.
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Re: Skull & Bones - Sample Editions with New Finishes

Unread post by shermjack »

For some reason, these decks have been completely removed from the CARC site without even a trace of the fact that they were ever sold...wonder why? :?
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Re: Skull & Bones - Sample Editions with New Finishes

Unread post by Azid »

shermjack wrote:For some reason, these decks have been completely removed from the CARC site without even a trace of the fact that they were ever sold...wonder why? :?
Yep, i noticed that on wednesday. Maybe they are sold out or they were just available for a limited time.
This time they sent my decks via DHL. I'm quite impressed that i got the decks 6 days after ordering.
Usually it takes like 2-3 that i get decks from the US (by USPS)
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Re: Skull & Bones - Sample Editions with New Finishes

Unread post by shermjack »

Azid wrote:
shermjack wrote:For some reason, these decks have been completely removed from the CARC site without even a trace of the fact that they were ever sold...wonder why? :?
Yep, i noticed that on wednesday. Maybe they are sold out or they were just available for a limited time.
This time they sent my decks via DHL. I'm quite impressed that i got the decks 6 days after ordering.
Usually it takes like 2-3 that i get decks from the US (by USPS)
When they usually sell out of decks, they still list them, but have SOLD OUT instead of the order button...these are just gone, no where to be found. Strange :shock: Bummer as I was thinking of picking up a couple more :(
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Re: Skull & Bones - Sample Editions with New Finishes

Unread post by Lenardt »

Gold skulls and bones! My favorite. Are they still sold out?
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Re: Skull & Bones - Sample Editions with New Finishes

Unread post by RichK »

shermjack wrote:
Azid wrote:
shermjack wrote:For some reason, these decks have been completely removed from the CARC site without even a trace of the fact that they were ever sold...wonder why? :?
Yep, i noticed that on wednesday. Maybe they are sold out or they were just available for a limited time.
This time they sent my decks via DHL. I'm quite impressed that i got the decks 6 days after ordering.
Usually it takes like 2-3 that i get decks from the US (by USPS)
When they usually sell out of decks, they still list them, but have SOLD OUT instead of the order button...these are just gone, no where to be found. Strange :shock: Bummer as I was thinking of picking up a couple more :(
It was a weekend only sale.
Move on, nothing to see here.
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Re: Skull & Bones - Sample Editions with New Finishes

Unread post by rousselle »

I'm fairly certain that there have been times in the past when decks were on sale for a very brief time, and then disappeared from the site for a while before the "official release" brought them back.

These were "sample" decks, according to the seals.
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Re: Skull & Bones - Sample Editions with New Finishes

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

rousselle wrote:I'm fairly certain that there have been times in the past when decks were on sale for a very brief time, and then disappeared from the site for a while before the "official release" brought them back.

These were "sample" decks, according to the seals.
Yep, when described as a "presale" or once limited "Early Release" they 'hide' for a while. I suspect there's a mechanism of some sorts to do it by date(s).

Now, what would everyone think if I said we were looking at using the "JNugg" stock & finish for UC2018 decks? It's something that I just hailed Rick about in the last day or two, so recent he hasn't had time to respond yet, but - it surely could happen! I have a sample Bill sent me, it feels 'right' to me... Maybe not exactly Jerry's Nugget, but as we have discussed before, it's not really possible to do that precisely the way it was done in the 1970's because of the changes (and restrictions) on the chemicals used. We are a cardistry web-site, correct?
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Re: Skull & Bones - Sample Editions with New Finishes

Unread post by guru »

Mike Ratledge wrote:
Now, what would everyone think if I said we were looking at using the "JNugg" stock & finish for UC2018 decks? It's something that I just hailed Rick about in the last day or two, so recent he hasn't had time to respond yet, but - it surely could happen! I have a sample Bill sent me, it feels 'right' to me... Maybe not exactly Jerry's Nugget, but as we have discussed before, it's not really possible to do that precisely the way it was done in the 1970's because of the changes (and restrictions) on the chemicals used. We are a cardistry web-site, correct?
As we already know that replicating the stock & finish is impossible in this day & age so it all turns out to be a marketing gimmick by Expert which capitalizes on the popularity of JNuggs playing card deck. So, what is the difference between them & few others who sell duplicate or fake Jerry's Nugget decks in the market?

Few months back I was working with my printer to see how closer we can replicate and come closer to the embossing done on JNuggs deck, and I also tried to get in touch with Stamis family ( owner of Jerry's Nugget Casino in Las Vegas) to see if I can use the name somewhere but I never intended to use it in a way as obvious as "JN finish". I didn't get any response from Stamis and I'm not sure if CARC or Expert would have gone ahead and taken certain permission or licensing rights to use the name as part of their finish.
And, now I see EPCC coming up with this new finish.....all power to them.

Mike - Coming back to your question, JNuggs has that exclusivity surrounding it that if someone uses it as part of their projects, they should be getting more eyeballs on the deck statistically speaking.
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Re: Skull & Bones - Sample Editions with New Finishes

Unread post by sinjin7 »

Mike Ratledge wrote:Now, what would everyone think if I said we were looking at using the "JNugg" stock & finish for UC2018 decks? It's something that I just hailed Rick about in the last day or two, so recent he hasn't had time to respond yet, but - it surely could happen! I have a sample Bill sent me, it feels 'right' to me... Maybe not exactly Jerry's Nugget, but as we have discussed before, it's not really possible to do that precisely the way it was done in the 1970's because of the changes (and restrictions) on the chemicals used. We are a cardistry web-site, correct?
I really wish CARC/EPCC/LPCC/Bill Kalush would quit trying to profit off claims that they can make a deck that feels similar to Jerry's Nuggets cards. First of all, while they're slippery, Jerry's Nuggets don't fan all that well, so why would anyone want to replicate a deck with sub-standard fanning capabilities? Now in the sense that a deck of genuine JNs are over 45 years old, they actually fan pretty well considering it is a deck manufactured almost half a century ago, but compared to a deck of humble modern day Bicycle Rider Backs, it's not even close. I would put the fanning ability of JNs slightly below an EPCC deck. JN's were finished, or dimpled, only on one side of the card and smooth on the other side, and that's why I think they don't fan super evenly like an Air Cushion deck. There's a reason why card manufacturers stopped that practice and switched over to both sides dimpled or both sides smooth - its because dimpling only one side wasn't good enough. So why emulate a finish that wasn't good enough? Plus, enough has been already said about the unavailability of the chemicals used in JNs' finish.

For me, the thing that makes JNs special is not the finish, but the card stock. I don't understand how anyone can say JNs have a thicker stock than other decks. Now fifty years ago, JNs may have been thicker than most other decks made back then, but when you compare a deck of JNs to a modern casino decks like Bee, or even Bicycle Rider Backs, JNs are thinner. But what makes JNs great is that even though they have such a thin stock compared to a Bike, they're much much stiffer. This makes JNs super durable, and when you bend or spring the cards, there's minimal deformation and they snap right back to their straight form. The wood used in the paper stock back in 1970 when JNs were made must have been special, you just don't see this quality combination of thinness and stiffness anymore. I suspect the USPCC, EPCC/LPCC and other card manufacturers use paper stock with too much recycled content to be able to truly replicate JN stock.

This new JN finish may be decent, may be not, but what I do know is that the deck won't feel like Jerry's Nuggets. As guru already said, all this "JN finish" hype is just marketing BS from EPCC/LPCC to lure collectors who never open their decks and therefore haven't the foggiest idea of what an actual deck of Jerry's Nuggets really feel like. So yeah, this is a cardistry website, so let's not fall for marketing gimmicks and stick to real cardistry quality. All the elite cardists, from the Bucks to De'vo to the Virts stick with the USPCC for their signature decks. They don't settle for decent performance decks and cut costs and pad profits by going with EPCC/LPCC, they demand the highest performance decks from the USPCC that's worthy of putting their names on their decks.
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Re: Skull & Bones - Sample Editions with New Finishes

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

sinjin7 wrote:
Mike Ratledge wrote:Now, what would everyone think if I said we were looking at using the "JNugg" stock & finish for UC2018 decks? It's something that I just hailed Rick about in the last day or two, so recent he hasn't had time to respond yet, but - it surely could happen! I have a sample Bill sent me, it feels 'right' to me... Maybe not exactly Jerry's Nugget, but as we have discussed before, it's not really possible to do that precisely the way it was done in the 1970's because of the changes (and restrictions) on the chemicals used. We are a cardistry web-site, correct?
I really wish CARC/EPCC/LPCC/Bill Kalush would quit trying to profit off claims that they can make a deck that feels similar to Jerry's Nuggets cards.
I agree to a point, but these aren't a money grab - the cost for producing decks with this stock & finish is the same as their other decks. I'm surely not a professional card handler like you, John - so I really would like to hear opinions from people like you that _do_ know what they're doing and what they are looking for before I assume that they are superior in any way to the "master" finish, for example.

Pretty much just thinking out loud as I am prone to do at times. In my mind (and poor basically crippled hands) they are quite nice as far as the handling, but - like I said - nowhere close to a professional deck handler.

I totally agree if this were a money grab or even a 25% "plus charge" to use it would likely just be the name you were buying. We have discussed at length just how impossible it is to recreate the finish - for all intents and purposes it is impossible. The point here was that if we could have decks that were somewhat superior handling to the norm (at little or no premium), why wouldn't we?
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Re: Skull & Bones - Sample Editions with New Finishes

Unread post by badpete69 »

Someone on Discourse said they opened their decks and that the JN finish deck is the closest thing they ever seen to the original Nuggets... Anyone else opened their decks?
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Re: Skull & Bones - Sample Editions with New Finishes

Unread post by theCapraAegagrus »

badpete69 wrote:Someone on Discourse said they opened their decks and that the JN finish deck is the closest thing they ever seen to the original Nuggets... Anyone else opened their decks?
I opened 1 and I have to agree. I'm impressed.
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Re: Skull & Bones - Sample Editions with New Finishes

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

I have to agree, as well. They definitely did their homework.
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Re: Skull & Bones - Sample Editions with New Finishes

Unread post by vasta41 »

Wow, I'm almost sad I didn't pick these up. Almost. It's hard for me to support anything JR does after the Legal Tender debacle.
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Re: Skull & Bones - Sample Editions with New Finishes

Unread post by badpete69 »

JR didnt really have anything to do with these samples as far as I know... He did a few S&B decks in the past but he doesnt own the design .... I think
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Re: Skull & Bones - Sample Editions with New Finishes

Unread post by vasta41 »

badpete69 wrote:JR didnt really have anything to do with these samples as far as I know... He did a few S&B decks in the past but he doesnt own the design .... I think
Whether or not he "owns" it I thought he at least came up with it. But that's the hardest part about boycotting JR- his artwork is very good.
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Re: Skull & Bones - Sample Editions with New Finishes

Unread post by maxs »

Can anyone compare the new "Stud Finish" to the ICO 2016 deck?
The ICO deck has an unnamed finish and quite a soft stock, too. It also doesn't fan really good out of the box, but once broken in, it handles and fans really nice.
Would be interesting if this is the same stock/finish.
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Re: Skull & Bones - Sample Editions with New Finishes

Unread post by rousselle »

So, I don't have the decks with me at the moment, but I opened one each of the "JN Finish" and "Studs Finish." One of them fanned kinda a little clumpy out of the box, and the other one fanned like total, absolute garbage right out of the box. I just don't recall which was which.

Other than that, the decks were fine, I suppose, and I haven't tried to break them in. Do they fan better after a break-in? Do they flourish well despite fanning like smurfing smurf?

As for boycotting these because they have a Jackson-designed back on them... really? These are a "standard" back that JR designed for CARC, and I expect they will use this back again in the future. These decks weren't supposed to be about the design (and, this is true of most CARC decks), they were supposed to be about the finish.

That said, the printing quality and the design are totally fine, as one would expect. But, if these are truly similar to JNs or Studs, I'm sure I'm not getting what's so great about them. I know there's a hell of a lot more to cardistry than just fanning/spreads, and I realize that many decks perform better after a break-in, but out of the box, the two decks that I opened just... bleh.
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Re: Skull & Bones - Sample Editions with New Finishes

Unread post by vasta41 »

rousselle wrote:As for boycotting these because they have a Jackson-designed back on them... really? These are a "standard" back that JR designed for CARC, and I expect they will use this back again in the future. These decks weren't supposed to be about the design (and, this is true of most CARC decks), they were supposed to be about the finish.
Yes, that comment was extreme and much more directed at his KS work but nonetheless, the Legal Tender campaign and his absence on this site leaves an awful taste in my mouth that permeates to all his other work, deserved or not. But like I said, I'm not boycotting these or any of his other work, I'm just thinking twice before I pledge for/buy his future decks.
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Re: Skull & Bones - Sample Editions with New Finishes

Unread post by PrincessTrouble »

rousselle wrote:So, I don't have the decks with me at the moment, but I opened one each of the "JN Finish" and "Studs Finish." One of them fanned kinda a little clumpy out of the box, and the other one fanned like total, absolute garbage right out of the box. I just don't recall which was which.
The Stud Finish deck fanned like total crap for me right out of the box. I haven't broken in either deck, though, nor have I ever handled real JNuggs so I have nothing to compare the JN Finish to. Between the two, I preferred the JN Finish to the Stud Finish.
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Re: Skull & Bones - Sample Editions with New Finishes

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

I didn't even look at the "Stud" finish, but the "JNugg" one does indeed remind me of the silky smooth yet precise handling of the OG nuggets. Of course as I have said before, I am far from a cardist and my essentially one handed technique leaves a lot to be desired.

Your mileage will vary, as always.
>Mike<
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