VXD Mk1: Las Vegas Edition ('VERTEX DECK')

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Re: VXD Las Vegas Edition - NOW LIVE

Unread post by VXD »

Thank you Rousselle

I'm going to try to sort it all out over the next day or two.

Regards

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Re: VXD Las Vegas Edition - NOW LIVE

Unread post by shermjack »

I am in :ugdance: ... look forward the the add-on list

Couple questions:
1. Will the numbers for the decks in the 'First Day Issue Combo' be matching?
2. Will you be able to identify what color deck you get in the traditional tuck without opening it?
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Re: VXD Las Vegas Edition - NOW LIVE (wap)

Unread post by vincero »

The back design in the KS is different to the one in the drafting section thread on UC. There it had holographic foil on the backs as well. Can you confirm if there is foil on the backs in KS?
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Re: VXD Las Vegas Edition - NOW LIVE (wap)

Unread post by VXD »

Vincero and all

That old thread showed the back for the 'London' edition. Maybe it should be removed now, to avoid any confusion.

Yes, both back and fronts are holographic, as the video shows.

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Re: VXD Las Vegas Edition - NOW LIVE (wap)

Unread post by vincero »

Thanks for the clarification
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Re: VXD Las Vegas Edition - NOW LIVE

Unread post by VXD »

Hi Shermjack

I am wary of trying to complicate my shipping arrangements with number requests. I am sorry, but I don't think I will be able to do that unfortunately...i.e match the numbers on 'First Day Issue' orders.

I'm extremely tired after a very long day here.

Thank you kindly for your backing sir.

Regards

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Re: VXD Las Vegas Edition - NOW LIVE

Unread post by shermjack »

VXD wrote: I am wary of trying to complicate my shipping arrangements with number requests. I am sorry, but I don't think I will be able to do that unfortunately...i.e match the numbers on 'First Day Issue' orders.
Completely understand, was just hoping that it might be possible :ugthink:

Anyways, get some rest and best of luck with the campaign! :D
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Re: VXD Las Vegas Edition - NOW LIVE

Unread post by VXD »

All

We will be making add-ons available very soon, so please check back in to your pledges. Due to the fact that the 'First Day Issue' decks will always be in very limited supply on the market after the campaign (499 black, 299 blue & red only), we have decided to have a non-limited paper-sleeve sealed deck available (i.e no traditional tuck, no metal case) for the lowest we can manufacture and sell at - $35. This way people will be able to swap out their valuable 'First Day Issue' decks for these decks, for general use and handling.

I am really looking forward to the feedback on the handling, once backers receive their VXD decks. They have a big advantage over the numerous gold-foiled decks made. Transparent holographics were developed for use in the ID security industry and these ID's get roughly handled an shoved in wallets all over the world. Of course, casinos require good handling from their decks as well, so things have fallen into place on the handling front. I think that is why we have never seen gold-foils used either on ID cards or in casinos, despite it being around for so long now in the custom playing card market. So for all the cardists and magicians and home-gamers out there....we want you to be able to use your flashy precious deck, as well as stare at its beauty!

Next month I have a meeting with the agent of the magician 'Dynamo' (he's similar to David Blaine in the US) in London, to offer him personalised holographic artwork.....it would certainly be nice to hear his approval on handling!
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Re: VXD Las Vegas Edition - NOW LIVE

Unread post by shermjack »

OK, I know that the creator might not want to hear this, but I have to say it now while there still might be a chance to change. I have been very excited about this project from the start and am not put off by the prices due to this new technology, but there is something that bothers me with this deck and it is making me question my pledge. It's the card backs...simply put, they are unattractive to say the least. :?

Creator, I know that you have spent a lot of time and energy with the making of these cards, but I truly think that the card backs need an overhaul (the original backs were better) and hope you are willing to consider this like you did with the other suggestions from the group (i.e. standard tuck). Though the decks might be revolutionary, the design is also very important and the current back is making me consider reducing my pledge to a standard tuck and wait for the next deck with this technology.
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Re: VXD Las Vegas Edition - NOW LIVE

Unread post by badpete69 »

The back is the reason I am not pledging that and the fact that i am supposed to stop collecting which i am struggling with
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Re: VXD Las Vegas Edition - NOW LIVE

Unread post by shaitani »

To make it easier for people to have a look and compare themselves.
Left is Las Vegas edition, right is London edition backs.

Image
I'm not sure if they ever plan to produce or offer the London ones, or if it's mainly being used for marketing purposes.

I suspect the response to the artistic criticism is going to be that this deck is mainly used as an example of what the technology can produce and it's up to whoever commissions VXD to determine how to design the cards.

I think whether or not this KS project funds, VXD needs to collaborate with an artist (*cough* imagine what Lotrek can do with this *cough*) as part of a serious end to end project to really show us what this tech can look like.
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Re: VXD Las Vegas Edition - NOW LIVE

Unread post by VXD »

Shaitani

You are right, in that any casino, company or individual commissioning VXD playing cards for the purpose of customising the holographic artwork elements (to promote or advertise on the fronts), will also of course be commissioning the standard artwork on the back.

So a casino for example, if they use VXD cards for a number of their tables....we would use their standard card back to match the normal cards they use. A company or an individual would tell us exactly what they would like to have on their custom deck and we would have artists draw this.

We could have gone more 'abstract' with the artwork....but it was a conscious choice for the Las Vegas Edition, to go with more a more commercial looking card back artwork, as Las Vegas is such a commercial place itself. I think it would be a shame to miss out on this first ever edition based on a preference for more abstract standard artwork, when this deck seeks to offer something new and different entirely, but I have noted the opinion.

Kind regards
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Re: VXD Las Vegas Edition - NOW LIVE

Unread post by VXD »

Also....the Las Vegas card back does look a lot lot better when its lit up with its holographics of course. Maybe I should add an image or two of this. It is only very briefly shown on the video and maybe the still shots just give the wrong impression. I think I should add a lit up image or two yes, as it's another ball-game entirely.
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Re: VXD Las Vegas Edition - NOW LIVE

Unread post by shermjack »

VXD wrote: We could have gone more 'abstract' with the artwork....but it was a conscious choice for the Las Vegas Edition, to go with more a more commercial looking card back artwork, as Las Vegas is such a commercial place itself. I think it would be a shame to miss out on this first ever edition based on a preference for more abstract standard artwork, when this deck seeks to offer something new and different entirely, but I have noted the opinion.
Thanks for the response. Please don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with commercial looking artwork if it is done well, but to be totally honest, the image of the Bellagio Fountain with people standing in front of it is just not attractive and takes away from the overall 'awesomeness' of the deck. The back 'as-is' will not prevent me from backing as I don't want to miss out on these cards, but it will definitely influence how much I back the project for and I will most likely only back for the Basic Black Deck now instead of the First Day of Issues. :?

Nevertheless, I am glad that you have reached your funding goal and look forward to seeing more projects with this technology and when I see that perfect combination of art and technology, I will break the bank! :ugdance:
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Re: VXD Las Vegas Edition - NOW LIVE

Unread post by Cardician_82 »

@Creator

You mention on the campaign page:
Add-ons are coming very soon....meaning you will be able to add further units to your existing single pledge, so please look back in to add more units.

Just wanted to know if this was still happening?

I'm a bit confused as to the pledging tiers. If I get this right, your offering a traditional black tuck for $39 and/or I can pledge for $49 for the Original Black Deck. Is that the Black Aluminum case for $49?? When can we see a add-on chart or something posted regarding adding more decks??

You also state:
The traditional tucks will be available in all three colors (tuck color to match) and can be specified at a later date. The current image seen is a digital rendering and may be further refined. Traditional tuck decks will be limited to 1500 in total (all three colors combined).

So are you going to offer a 2 deck traditional tier / 3 deck traditional tier as well??

Thanks in advance,
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Re: VXD Las Vegas Edition - NOW LIVE

Unread post by TGunitedcardists »

badpete69 wrote:(snip)... and the fact that i am supposed to stop collecting which i am struggling with
Tell me about it. I've slowed down, but something keeps me going, yet more slowly these days.
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Re: VXD Las Vegas Edition - NOW LIVE

Unread post by TGunitedcardists »

shaitani wrote:To make it easier for people to have a look and compare themselves.
Left is Las Vegas edition, right is London edition backs.

Image
I think the backs on the right are clearly better. I'm out on this project, but I wish the artist the best of luck. I couldn't get past the LV in the hearts and the price for one or two decks is a little outside my comfort zone, unless I really, really, really love everything.

I hope this technology makes it to a more traditional deck or something with a theme that interests me more.

Good luck Mr. Diz.
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Re: VXD Las Vegas Edition - NOW LIVE

Unread post by VXD »

Hi Guys & Gals

Following a very busy couple of weeks discussing the potentials of these new playing cards with the casinos in Las Vegas....I am now back on terra firma and will be able to address KS thoughts and issues again.

Regarding the layout / descriptions / details of the KS campaign...I understand there is a little confusion still as to what is being offered. I apologise if anyone has been in any doubt. I would have tweaked the language and indeed did try to many times on the existing tiers, but once just one person backs the tier, the wording cannot be changed. On the Add-on front, I posted a table very briefly, then realised it was not correct (as no limited items can be offered as add-ons of course)....we are still working on it and will include it asap. Still considering whether or how to offer uncut sheets.....they would look incredible with a light shining on them on a wall, but as noted our production is unusual (narrower machines for precision holographics, used in security / ID industry) and we have two sheets.....tricky to think how to do it, if at all?? Would there be appetite??

Anyway, I will do the housekeeping that needs doing on KS, to make things as clear as possible for everyone, now I have a tiny bit more time and am at home.

Regarding the standard artwork card back design....I take on board your points totally. This is the first ever VXD edition and I believe it will find its place as such, down the line. I am fully open to working with more traditional custom playing card designers and even non-playing card artists for the next world city editions to come. We may also release a Mark2 of Las Vegas in future I believe.

I believe this very first edition will serve as more of a successful proof of the new playing card tech we have invented and developed, rather than of an artistic triumph perhaps. So it will likely be of relevance to the industry when looking back in years to come....particularly if / when VXD does find its way into the casino industry (which I believe is inevitable).

Kind regards all and thank you all again who have pledged support.
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Re: VXD Las Vegas Edition - NOW LIVE

Unread post by VXD »

Cardician

Yes, the $39 is the deck in the traditional tuck (these are non-First Day Issue units)
The $49 tier is the black (color card back) deck in the all-metal case (these are non-First Day Issue units)
The $60 tier is the same black (color card back) deck in the all-metal case, (these are First Day Issue units) - i.e limited to 499 numbered units total, has 'First Day Issue' laser etched on the metal case & printed on the Ace of Spades and with the 'secret' holographic signatures of the creators on the AoS too.

I hope that helps to clarify.

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Re: VXD Mk1: Las Vegas Edition - NOW LIVE

Unread post by VXD »

Rousselle

Thank you very much for taking time to advise on the add on method. Still learning all the KS ways. Apologies for not thanking you earlier.....I had read it and meant to thank you, then got side-tracked clearly.

Regards
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Re: VXD Mk1: Las Vegas Edition - NOW LIVE

Unread post by shaitani »

I've got a question about something I assume you've already tested it out, and I imagine every casino you talked to probably wanted to verify immediately, but I am curious to get confirmation.

Have you tested to make sure the holographics don't create reflections on the table or in any way allow other players to determine what cards their opponents have?

Also, a tangential question, have you tested the cards in casino grade auto shufflers to make sure the thickness of the cards was acceptable, and that the holographics don't dull out over time or anything?
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Re: VXD Mk1: Las Vegas Edition - NOW LIVE

Unread post by VXD »

Shaitani

There are a number of issues that were discussed regarding potential use of VXD cards on casino tables:

Firstly, it was agreed that the back of the casino playing card would certainly stay just as it is now....i.e no transparent holographics and very plain pattern....this ensures cards cannot be distinguished from one another. Hence, there will be no issue raised regarding any unusual reflections etc from the card backs.

So the transparent holographics would only exist on the FRONTS of the cards and in a similar way to how we have used them on this Mk1 edition....i.e only inside the pips.

I had done my own research into auto card shuffler machines and this was also discussed of course....you can find videos on YouTube of exactly how the mechanics work inside....what you find is that the machines push the cards on the outside edges only into and out of slots, therefore the cards are not clamped or abraded on their front or back surfaces in any way....hence there is no concern over friction / abrasion on surfaces. The thickness difference is microns by adding transparent holographics.....it is negligible. Variations in base (black core) paper thicknesses by different playing card manufacturers are much larger than this difference already and the shuffle machines have relatively large tolerances to thickness.

The casino 'eye' (surveillance cameras) was a potential issue discussed....however it was noted that the effect on the playing cards is seen only at specific angles and hence with so many angles available to use for surveillance (there are SO many cameras). Lights can also be slightly adjusted to eliminate any issues for the 'eye'. That and the fact that the transparent holographics are shaped overall in pip shape anyway, so the recorded image is still the same as the original playing card front with inks alone. So no show-stoppers.

Overwhelmingly the Casino Managers or Gaming Directors found the concept 'interesting' (to quote quite a few of them) and they seemed to see the benefits of:

1) The 'gimmick' which created visual appeal and hence would likely bring new / curious players to the tables - hence higher revenues.
2) The ability to promote and advertise casino or casino-affiliated brands & events on the fronts, where the focus of attention is, without changing the classic ink artwork.
3) The additional security provided to the playing cards by the inclusion of transparent holographics - no player will ever be able to substitute a card in like these, as they are so difficult to produce.

A vital step discussed was to get VXD playing cards approved by the Gaming Board / Commission in Nevada, possibly with the backing of one of the big casino corporations. Interestingly though, the poker rooms within all the casinos operate independently to the main casino floors....they use different cards and are not subject to strict regulation....I spoke with about 4 or 5 of these rooms who were very interested and will speak to more on my next trip. They would appear the easier initial entry for VXD cards into casinos, while we try to sort out wider Gaming Commission approval.

Anyway, I've gone on there a bit and probably answered a lot more than your questions, but that's an overview of the practicalities of using VXD cards in (Las Vegas) casinos discussed so far.

People will get a much fuller overview from Shark Tank I'm sure ;)
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Re: VXD Mk1: Las Vegas Edition - NOW LIVE

Unread post by vasta41 »

VXD wrote:A vital step discussed was to get VXD playing cards approved by the Gaming Board / Commission in Nevada, possibly with the backing of one of the big casino corporations.
I'm sorry to be the wet blanket here but as an avid Shark Tank watcher, I have to mention this. I've read several of your posts in this thread about your work trying to get these cards in casinos and all the speed bumps along your way. But one glaring speed bump you haven't mentioned is price and I'm shocked by that. I cannot imagine that casinos would spend even $0.10 more per deck just because they "sparkle." Having shiny pips might make an average passer-by or two more interested in playing a card game at a casino but ultimately I don't see how it would help the casino make more money (and let's face it- that's their main goal). And if the cards cost more than the decks they're currently buying, which I can only assume they do based on the pledge level I'm in for, and the decks won't help the casinos make a lot more money, then why would the casinos want to buy and use these decks regardless of how cool they are?

Please understand that this is not a knock at you or this deck. I LOVE this deck and concept and am happily backing your project. I'm just curious about the elephant in the room.
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Re: VXD Mk1: Las Vegas Edition - NOW LIVE

Unread post by VXD »

Vasta

The whole point is that we supply the casinos for free, unlimited, thereby under-cutting the existing normal playing card suppliers. The promoter / advertiser (the transparent holographics in the pips) pays for the production.

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Re: VXD Mk1: Las Vegas Edition - NOW LIVE

Unread post by vasta41 »

VXD wrote:Vasta

The whole point is that we supply the casinos for free, unlimited, thereby under-cutting the existing normal playing card suppliers. The promoter / advertiser (the transparent holographics in the pips) pays for the production.

Regards
Genius.
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Re: VXD Mk1: Las Vegas Edition - NOW LIVE

Unread post by VXD »

Vasta

Why thank you sir. The casino bosses seemed to think so too. For others who haven't put it together yet fully:

1) Casinos get free 'sparkly' cards - attracting more players and higher revenues, plus saving them upto $200 000 a year in playing card costs to boot.

2) Advertiser / promoter gets advertising on the fronts of playing cards (where attention is intensely focused for the whole time a player plays) to high-spend / high disposable income individuals. Example: Omnia nightclub inside Caesars Palace - I was speaking to the casino manager there and he said that Omnia pay Caesars Entertainment Corp $13M a year to rent the nightclub inside CP, but turn a huge profit still! Omnia make their money primarily from rich guys who go to this nightclub (as most girls go free and get drinks bought for them etc - we know the deal there). So the more rich men they can attract to the nightclub the better....so where better to advertise this than at the high-stakes table games in Caesars Palace, where these guys happen to be staying and playing (hypothetically). Omnia logo sparkling inside all the pips.

3) VXD cards get great exposure and we sell a separate retail edition inside the casino that is using them on their tables.

Everyone wins.
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Re: VXD Mk1: Las Vegas Edition - NOW LIVE

Unread post by vasta41 »

VXD wrote:Everyone wins.
Nope- only the house. [BACON] :lol: :lol:
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Re: VXD Mk1: Las Vegas Edition - NOW LIVE

Unread post by VXD »

Touché old chap :D
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Re: VXD Mk1: Las Vegas Edition - NOW LIVE

Unread post by VXD »

All

New VERY LIMITED tiers added just now on KS (with multi-unit pledge discounts and combined shipping benefits)

Thanks to all supporters.

Kind regards
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Re: VXD Mk1: Las Vegas Edition - NOW LIVE

Unread post by VXD »

All

Here is some amateur footage taken at home today of one of my sample VXD units (N.B - its best to zoom in a little):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-mOfpoq4HY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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