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The concern is that there is a massive quality gap between printers, even on a professional level.

Take NPCC as an example: They are an established printer that has been printing playing cards for some time, has experience using their equipment to print playing cards specifically, has been refining their process for years, and they are still not what I would consider a high quality printer, they pull up the middle ground with companies like makeplayingcards.com, but are still quite a ways behind USPCC, and Legends.
Jericholic's hyperbolic statement about 'printing out of their basement' was rhetoric about the lack of proof showing experience and quality, and the likelihood that cards printed in house will likely end up being sub-par quality. The standard of quality in this community generally falls on USPCC, EPCC and LPCC, so without proof that this printer's quality is equal to those printers, and there is heavy doubt it is, and without knowing the printers track record with projects, this just looks like another no-name printing company and in our experience that means lower qwuality and higher risk, especially when they are asking at a price point that many equate with USPCC quality decks. On top of red flags like free worldwide shipping.

It is difficult to argue. You have to compare.

Sorry, it was never specified where or who is producing these decks. We've seen others in the past on Kickstarter with similar claims whose quality was terrible in the end. From the looks of things I'm far from the only concerned potential backer.

Wanderer wrote:It is difficult to argue. You have to compare.

They need to provide us something to compare..? Maybe I missed where they offered up examples of their previous work we might have experience with, I will go back and read through.

It seems there is enough concern that this won't fund... You can't claim to have uspcc quality with no product example to back that claim up... going to the ford example Toyota and Hyundai have proven concepts that people can see and know are good as well. But if an unheard of new company came out with a new car having never made a car before claiming Mercedes quality and asking Mercedes pricing you bet your ass I'm not going to put down the money for it purely because the creator who is inherently biased says it is good. The fact that you claim its so easy and anyone with money to buy some machinery and a factory space could do it only further causes me to lose faith. Even other top of the line companies like EPCC don't produce a product quite as good as uspcc, for that example when foiling card backs their process leaves an indent where uspcc does not. Even USPCC widely considered the best has registration issues so the straight up arrogance in saying you have some expensive equipment and therefore can produce a superior product is a big red flag. And the aggressively defensive nature in which these concerns are addressed isn't helping your cause either.

I'm not claiming it isn't hypothetically possible to create a product to compete with USPCC legends and expert have done it, the issue is that still no products have been put forward as proof just vague illusions to unnamed casinos... Asking people to pay top dollar for a product before proving it's a top dollar product will obviously be met with some skepticism. If you want people to back what is basically a test product you need lower prices so the risk isn't as high to the consumer or better artwork so the reward is higher. Right now even if it was uspcc printing it would be a middle of the pack mediocre deck and the added risk of unknown printer means it can't compete with the current flooding of Kickstarter by really great decks.

jerichoholic wrote:Sorry, it was never specified where or who is producing these decks. We've seen others in the past on Kickstarter with similar claims whose quality was terrible in the end. From the looks of things I'm far from the only concerned potential backer.

I understand your concern.
Our experts monitor the quality of the leading manufacturers in this field. Believe, we are not interested in the production of non-competitive products.
We are not ready to give anyone interested the deck to assess the quality of products, it is not economically feasible.

Mischievous wrote:

jerichoholic wrote:Sorry, it was never specified where or who is producing these decks. We've seen others in the past on Kickstarter with similar claims whose quality was terrible in the end. From the looks of things I'm far from the only concerned potential backer.

I understand your concern.
Our experts monitor the quality of the leading manufacturers in this field. Believe, we are not interested in the production of non-competitive products.
We are not ready to give anyone interested the deck to assess the quality of products, it is not economically feasible.

You could sent a handful of decks to known reviewers within the community. That way we have an unbiased opinion to inform the consumer. The Reviews section of these boards could be a place to start finding them.

I think I understand what's going on. SVI need to forget about the projects on Kickstarter and release the deck for sale. Or put a minimum price for the project. Although some sense in this. This project is really not the best, but the fact that they showed in the future is much more interesting. I do not have a deck of SVI, but I have a deck USPCC and I have a deck printed in China for good equipment. In my opinion they are not much use different. But for some reason, strongly recommend to contact the USPCC. It makes you wonder about the monopoly and market blockage. Then, in fact, it is necessary to get these areas and develop a new business strategy. For example, offer to all comers printed cheaply and efficiently.

I supported the project in a luxury package.Change of the order for eight decks. And I promise to all participants of the correspondence sent by a deck for review. Even for my poor country's $ 15 per carton is not money. The only way we can solve this dispute. That would laugh if the quality would be worthy.

JuFiN wrote: Right now even if it was uspcc printing it would be a middle of the pack mediocre deck and the added risk of unknown printer means it can't compete with the current flooding of Kickstarter by really great decks.

How pathetic! China bought a Hummer, and Volvo, a couple of years he bought the entire auto industry. What do you call the top-end decks? Each person has their understanding and their perception of the environment. Someone like who do not. The market of the United States is not the only one in the world. Such impressions going that no other countries and continents. Do not pay the dollars paid pounds, euros and rubles.

Wanderer wrote:

JuFiN wrote: Right now even if it was uspcc printing it would be a middle of the pack mediocre deck and the added risk of unknown printer means it can't compete with the current flooding of Kickstarter by really great decks.

How pathetic! China bought a Hummer, and Volvo, a couple of years he bought the entire auto industry. What do you call the top-end decks? Each person has their understanding and their perception of the environment. Someone like who do not. The market of the United States is not the only one in the world. Such impressions going that no other countries and continents. Do not pay the dollars paid pounds, euros and rubles.

I think he just means that the design is mediocre at best, the art is amateurish and the design lacks depth, the pips are noisy and clash really strongly with the rest of the design elements, the back is a one way design and overall there are a lot of elements working against each other.

I agree. Contradictions are present. But like someone who is not. I for example do not like a lot of decks that others admire.

OK - Let's please keep the name calling to a minimum (i.e. zero) - thanks. Insulting someone because they insult you is not an excuse - that is how flame wars start, and if that happens you risk being banned.
Also it is sometimes easy to see insult when a comment or question is blunt - especially if we are communicating in second languages.

Where the printer allows for small test runs it's not unusual for designers to create prototype decks - often these go to reviewers or as contest prizes or offered as "super rare" pledge= tier or add-on. If you work for or represent the company this might be easier to arrange!

montecarlojoe wrote:OK - Let's please keep the name calling to a minimum (i.e. zero) - thanks. Insulting someone because they insult you is not an excuse - that is how flame wars start, and if that happens you risk being banned.
Also it is sometimes easy to see insult when a comment or question is blunt - especially if we are communicating in second languages.

Where the printer allows for small test runs it's not unusual for designers to create prototype decks - often these go to reviewers or as contest prizes or offered as "super rare" pledge= tier or add-on. If you work for or represent the company this might be easier to arrange!

Excuse me, you who to contact? If I am, then I do not have to SVI relationship. But I have the opportunity to collect full information about any company in my country. What I am now doing. Moreover, in the morning, I put on an independent examination card NPCC AND USPCC. Result necessarily lay. Unfortunately cards SWI is not yet.

"Insulting someone because they insult you is not an excuse - that is how flame wars start, and if that happens you risk being banned.
"

That is, it can be and I do not? Where is democracy? Where the right to protection?

Thanks for the warning. I got it! Just frustrating when trying to wrongly demean others.

I know it can be frustrating. And Victor has a talent for being a little too blunt sometimes

If you do feel people are being too rude, then message MOD in private and we'll see what we can do, and try to clear up any misunderstandings.

Regarding test prints - I just wanted to highlight that it's not necessarily a crazy idea from a marketing point of view.
I have no idea who to talk to though. But if SVI are the printers and you or Mischievous work for SVI / Centurion then it might be something you could ask for?

Thank you for understanding! I and my group are currently working on the SVI and NPCC. Think in a few hours will be the result. I'm very interested to resolve the dispute. To confirm or deny the possibility of SVI. Since I supported their project on Kickstarter. I'll try to get a sample decks.

All consider themselves as experts. I also want to be considered an expert. Moreover, I think that I have more chances than all of you. Therefore, starting an investigation. Instead, it would be as normal people go in the morning to the gym, pool and sauna, I picked up a couple of batches of manufacture NPCC and USPSS and went to the independent expert. Preliminary results showed that the batches were made on the equipment, which is nearly by technical specifications. The degree of wear and tear (i.e., it is a new or old, and whose newest) be installed later. The chemical composition of the ink and the paper quality also require examination that is more detailed, it is worth the wait. The question remains why some are considered better than the other one? The answer is simple! There is playing the role of the human factor. However, this is a solvable problem. Now the fun part! At the same time, my staff gather information about companies NPCC and SVI. You will be surprised. Such organization as the NPCC is not legally exist, as well as mythical printing. NPCC is a group of people, estimated there were three now we are try to learn more precisely. This group took the name similar to USPSS and worked under contract with the printers, and not one. So that the products of this company was printed in different printing shops name and whereabouts of several we have already established. Next SVI. Here, everything is more complicated. This is British firm; there is link to the British Register of https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10200364" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. And the founders of this company are Ukrainians. They are the founders of the group "Centurion", which includes a group of companies, own security service and even professional fight clubs. However, the most interesting is that one of the printing presses which printed NPCC or was purchased, or rented, or works under a contract with SVI. Here we are dealing with official entities. How do you like this turn of events? Accordingly, the quality of their products cannot be lower than the NPCC. Moreover, we learned that in the next week on the printing press should go to some fancy machine. It is now undergoing customs clearance. That's it guys. You led by the nose, and you therefore don’t know the truth gave the information to others. If you need documents, photos, video lock offices, production, etc. Please, write me personal massage. And my promise to give each of the participants by SVI batch of cards if the project is a positive result remains valid. Here and check their quality. Although I try to contact with SVI managers in live and take their samples. I think they don’t refuse me. I think, that information, which I provided, is public, as it doesn’t contain any secrets, and any person having a certain connection, if desired, could get it. Good luck to all! Be careful, Big Brother is watching you!

NPCC quality is poor. If you are saying that these decks will be similar in print quality and stock it is an easy pass. You will find that a lot of current collectors prefer LPCC and EPCC to even USPCC. NPCC doesn't compare to these three and makeplayingcards.com is even worse. Ultimately this deck doesn't make the cut, an amatuerish design, with unexceptional art from an unknown-unproven printer that is being compared in quality to an established third-rate printer by it's supporters. There will be some on here that will back it, and if this somehow manages to fund I'm sure we will all be curious to hear their thoughts on the final product

Look, it's really pretty simple; If you don't have samples which trusted members of the community have used and reviewed, as a 'new' printer you're going to find it hard to get traction - especially on Kickstarter, when trusted and regular designers are having trouble getting funding for decks by USPCC and other known quantities.

Several of us who have been around a while (about 8 years in my case) and have seen many printers come along saying that they will be superior or equal to the incumbents (USPCC initially), so far few have produced content which we generally think is near equal. (EPCC/LPCC primarily). Many of the members here treat their decks hard, and know with many years experience that most decks - many using top of the line equipment - don't measure up to our high expectations. This doesn't mean you can't compete, but we're also not likely to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Yes, some of the members might be confronting, but arguing about your opinion of your products quality when nobody has seen or used them is completely pointless - prove them/us wrong.

Just a couple of observations (Mods; sorry about the double post)

Wanderer: You signed up here 4 days ago, and have posted all of your 16 posts on this topic.
Mischievious: You also have 16 posts (out of 24) on this topic.

Prior to this post, 32 of 40 posts in this topic have been from one of the two of you - some of which are thanking the other, and therefore adding little new information. You appear to be closely related (in terms of this project at least), and it would be easy for someone to assume you are in fact the one person - I'm not making this accusation, but I would easy to come to this conclusion.

Therefore can you each clarify who you are in relation to this project and each other, so the rest of us have some clarity on who we're potentially dealing with?

Wanderer wrote:........The answer is simple! There is playing the role of the human factor. However, this is a solvable problem. Now the fun part! At the same time, my staff gather information about companies NPCC and SVI........

My friend, thank you for your support.
Though we are with you, and from one country, but it is at least confidential information and to be honest, not ethical to rinse the laundry of others.
I suggest to bury the hatchet and exchange pleasantries.
Friendship won.

Gareth wrote:Just a couple of observations (Mods; sorry about the double post)

Wanderer: You signed up here 4 days ago, and have posted all of your 16 posts on this topic.
Mischievious: You also have 16 posts (out of 24) on this topic.

Prior to this post, 32 of 40 posts in this topic have been from one of the two of you - some of which are thanking the other, and therefore adding little new information. You appear to be closely related (in terms of this project at least), and it would be easy for someone to assume you are in fact the one person - I'm not making this accusation, but I would easy to come to this conclusion.

Therefore can you each clarify who you are in relation to this project and each other, so the rest of us have some clarity on who we're potentially dealing with?

Thank you for the fine noted by the details! Of course connected! I prepay money for 8 decks! Then he began to look for more information and came to the forum. We are one country, probably from the same city. Accordingly, no support, I just could not countrymen. The main thing to understand more like a who's who in this game. In my opinion I did it quite successfully. With SVI, I would love to collaborate on a professional level. For example, a business security specialist.

Justin O. wrote:NPCC quality is poor. If you are saying that these decks will be similar in print quality and stock it is an easy pass. You will find that a lot of current collectors prefer LPCC and EPCC to even USPCC. NPCC doesn't compare to these three and makeplayingcards.com is even worse. Ultimately this deck doesn't make the cut, an amatuerish design, with unexceptional art from an unknown-unproven printer that is being compared in quality to an established third-rate printer by it's supporters. There will be some on here that will back it, and if this somehow manages to fund I'm sure we will all be curious to hear their thoughts on the final product

Here you are right on all 100%. In my opinion not worth the SVI attached to Ukrainian printers. Perhaps the release of the deck at different locations and allow professionals to compare.Also it would stand wonder how to start working deck. "The Star Kings" specific product. Not everyone is interested in the theme of the affected SI-FI.

Hello,
I want to give you an explanation of the decks " Star Kings".
The project was ordered by the author of the book "Shambhala Warriors" and not a product of the SVI GROUP, as you noticed PDF books included in the gift. Therefore, the deck are limited edition. Decks will see life in any case, regardless of the results of the KS.

The project on KS, we put in the tradition of other reputable companies that operate on the playing card market, in order to study reviews the potential consumers.
The following decks will be exclusively of our development with the involvement of our artists.

You forgot to add that the author of the book, is a co-founder of the SVI. This is just in case, for those who consider me an interested party. I understand he wants to make the deck as a gift for yourself.

The gift from the author's of fiction series

The team SVI GROUP informs the backers, that we have started the spread of gifts.As promised, the first gift from the author's of fiction series "Chronicles of Star frontiers", the novel "The Warriors of Shambhala", in electronic form, you can download on the link,

For anyone who hasn't noticed, this project was cancelled for a second time now and relaunched with a measly £500 goal which is now funded.

For some mysterious reason they have also launched this under a new account and deleted their old account. A reputable company would not delete an account after a couple of failures nor launch a project with a desperately low funding goal.

jerichoholic wrote:For anyone who hasn't noticed, this project was cancelled for a second time now and relaunched with a measly £500 goal which is now funded.

This is my surprised face.