Ravn purple

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Thedissident001
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Re: Ravn purple

Unread post by Thedissident001 »

"Anything not printed by USPCC is sub-par" ??? Please.
After having received many hundreds of decks in the last few years from various card companies, my experience is that there is no single metric USPCC excels in consistently above the others. These other companies would simply not survive if there were any demonstrable advantage of going with USPCC, beyond the usual "we've been around the longest in our current form, why wouldn't you think we're the greatest" empty rhetoric. Inputs like who the creator is, and how/what they demand of their product seems to have far greater influence on what the customer receives.
I for one can't wait to receive another Cartamundi deck.
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Re: Ravn purple

Unread post by Thedissident001 »

Also find it amusing how US-based backers complain about $3-$4 variations in deck price. If you ever moved overseas you'd quickly discover how good you had it all along with free US shipping on many campaigns, no foreign currency conversion charges, quicker delivery turnaround times, a cheaper aftermarket... It's like anything, if you feel it's worth the cost to you then buy it, if not then don't. You don't see people complaining to other Capitalist driven exploits expecting price reduction, why shouldn't card creators enjoy some profit for their labour too? /Rant
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Re: Ravn purple

Unread post by Bruno »

We all of us agree with the above sentiments ....

But, y'know, people will find the need to highlight their sensitivities.
For some :? strange reason.
(Try reconciling the shipping news to Oz, by crikey, and you will have room for any number of pointless complaints)

Bruno + 4 (which makes umm :? 5, ok) :lol:
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Re: Ravn purple

Unread post by shaitani »

Thedissident001 wrote:If you ever moved overseas you'd quickly discover how good you had it all along with free US shipping on many campaigns, no foreign currency conversion charges, quicker delivery turnaround times, a cheaper aftermarket...
I always take a moment to feel grateful for being in the US every time I scroll through the drop down of countries in Kickstarter and see all the +4s and +8s by every country except the US. [emoji631]
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Re: Ravn purple

Unread post by MagikFingerz »

Thedissident001 wrote:...my experience is that there is no single metric USPCC excels in consistently above the others.
Finish. At least from the perspective of cardists, maybe the variance isn't big enough to make a difference to other card handlers/collectors.
Thedissident001 wrote:Also find it amusing how US-based backers complain about $3-$4 variations in deck price. If you ever moved overseas you'd quickly discover how good you had it all along with free US shipping on many campaigns, no foreign currency conversion charges, quicker delivery turnaround times, a cheaper aftermarket... It's like anything, if you feel it's worth the cost to you then buy it, if not then don't. You don't see people complaining to other Capitalist driven exploits expecting price reduction, why shouldn't card creators enjoy some profit for their labour too? /Rant
I completely agree, but were I to live in the US I would still have a limit on price where, if exceeded, I (usually) wouldn't buy a deck. And I would also let it be known that this is the reason I don't. It may seem like pointless complaining to some, but it's valuable feedback for deck creators/producers.
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Re: Ravn purple

Unread post by Bruno »

Yup, concur ....
Tho' I'll add that my descriptor is 'pointless' not senseless .... not the same.
Shipping.
'Planes, Trains and wacking big Container Vessels .... Keep on Trucking ! **

**Thanks Mr Cobb :lol:

edit
It is a concern for all of us out here in backerland, though for Creators it can almost be a spirit breaker .... we think in costs per deck, but give little thought to the extended time and effort that can be subsumed to the huge part >>Shipping<< can take out of someones life.
I can only imagine.
O, I beg of you your comprehensions,
yet laugh at your contempts ....
my only competition is with myselves.

But Lèse-majesté, especially >Normans, natch.

Is jarnstill the Ars of the Hors Nebulous ?
Neigh .... the Effluxor of the Omniverse ??
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Re: Ravn PurpleHaze !!!! from CARTAMUNDI

Unread post by Bruno »

Thedissident001 wrote:"Anything not printed by USPCC is sub-par" ??? Please.
After having received many hundreds of decks in the last few years from various card companies, my experience is that there is no single metric USPCC excels in consistently above the others. These other companies would simply not survive if there were any demonstrable advantage of going with USPCC, beyond the usual "we've been around the longest in our current form, why wouldn't you think we're the greatest" empty rhetoric. Inputs like who the creator is, and how/what they demand of their product seems to have far greater influence on what the customer receives.
I for one can't wait to receive another Cartamundi deck.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ra ... ze/updates

Coming right up !

And .... for those with uspcc one-eyed/tunnel vision/submerged-outlook/comprehension-culpability ....***

Too Sad !

*** Randy Rites .... quoth--
Yep, SinJin and I have talked, via PM, about my trepidations with printing with USPCC. Years ago I vowed to never print any future solo Decks with USPCC! They had really screwed us over on the White ORNATES with their +/- 10% rule (more like +15% take it or else…..). They had also messed up the bottom flaps of around 80% of the Unbranded Obsidian Tuck Boxes (and were blasé about it "somehow slipped through our Q1 Inspectors..."). I'm sad to say, working with them for freelance Decks the past couple years hasn't helped in changing my mind. I could probably write a book on the behind-the-scenes inconsistency of USPCC's Prepress, Printing and Law departments!

I've submitted Print Files for 4 different designs to USPCC this year alone (V2 Honeybees, Bicycle Inspire, Snake Oil and one I can't mention). EVERY one of them had some kind of issue with either their Prepress or Law departments! For the Metalluxe Honeybees, they came back a week or two later and had me put all of the separate Foil and Embossing Plates into the same Illustrator file, in separate Layers (even though they had me separate similar Plates into SEPARATE Illustrator files for a different design in 2016). A couple more weeks later, they came back and said "yeah, we now have a new Tuck Dieline for any that have Embossing". So, I had to rework the files again. USPCC's mishaps are the main reasons the Metalluxe Honeybees are taking longer than the regular V2 Honeybees! For the Bicycle Inspire Deck, they had the usual round of Legal Copy changes that happen with any Bicycle branded Tucks (it's NEVER the same from project to project). Then they came back and wanted me to change the Blue color's name from "PANTONE BLUE" to "PANTONE 286" in all 56 of the marked Back Cards' files. I told them that change didn't make any sense, since they could easily change the color name ONE time after they setup the Faces' Uncut layout (and it didn't make any difference anyways. They still had to print just the 1 Pantone plate). I was leaving for vacation less than an hour after they sent that request and couldn't do it, so I guess they actually sucked it up and did it themselves. For the Snake Oil Decks, they came up with some new guideline where they wanted me to move all of the Face Card Dielines from a separate Photoshop Layer to an Alpha Channel. The USPCC Lawyers made a big stink on that one about changing "PRINTED BY…" to "MANUFACTURED BY…". I had some very detailed and complex Layers I had to redo and adjust in order to do these petty changes. I was pissed!!! My early background was working in the Prepress department of a Printshop, so I know how to supply extremely pristine Print Files. I can't even imagine the "fixes" they have novice designers do for them!

My day job (designing for alcohol brands - Jameson, Absolut, Malibu, Jim Beam…..) involves a lot of back-and-forth with Lawyers, and minor revisions to make sure the designs and wording are compliant with each state's legal restrictions. After working the full day on stuff like that, I want to minimalize similar hassles during my night / hobby job. I know one thing for sure - printing with the LPCC / EPCC / Hanson printer has NONE of these inconsistent Prepress and Lawyer issues!!

And, most importantly, there are NO worries about trim registration for Full Bleed or Thin Border designs (which was also a major reason we chose Hanson over USPCC). Poor trim registration is always a known problem with USPCC.

unquoth.

Bruno blathers ....
this to counter the culpability and ignorance delivered for the delectation of the un-observing grifters and shills who are such a valued asset to uspcc, if they are not already on a retainer/salary.
Now who would have known, and for how long has it concurrently existed ?

oh shut up Bruno, exposing liars for lying is a redundancy, everybody enjoys liars exposing their sad selves again and again on these boards, stop highlighting th'plainly obvious ....

Sincere apols to Randy and Lorenzo/Caroline and anyone else off-sided by the above ....
>whistling<
O, I beg of you your comprehensions,
yet laugh at your contempts ....
my only competition is with myselves.

But Lèse-majesté, especially >Normans, natch.

Is jarnstill the Ars of the Hors Nebulous ?
Neigh .... the Effluxor of the Omniverse ??
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Re: Ravn purple

Unread post by vasta41 »

Great, I'm glad I clicked on this thread to read some insightful comments on playing cards. Oh wait... nope, just Bruno working hard trying to get banned.
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Re: Ravn purple

Unread post by montecarlojoe »

To be fair to Bruno that is real info and relevant to where the conversation had drifted.

USPCC have undoubtedly a great history in producing high quality products. The name alone has significant caché for a project associated with it.

But some context in the form of real experience as to WHY creators make other decisions is valuable.

Having said that I cant wait to get my grubby hands on the new RAVN deck :)
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Re: Ravn PurpleHaze !!

Unread post by Bruno »

That would be the new Cartamundi Ravn deck ....

I'll give credit where it is due.
Not simply for perceived or accepted wisdom in the face of fact.
I have only contempt for conceit.

My small conceit sits thus heavily. :D
O, I beg of you your comprehensions,
yet laugh at your contempts ....
my only competition is with myselves.

But Lèse-majesté, especially >Normans, natch.

Is jarnstill the Ars of the Hors Nebulous ?
Neigh .... the Effluxor of the Omniverse ??
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Re: Ravn purple

Unread post by vedus »

vasta41 wrote:Now I don't have a problem with Cartamundi per se but generally speaking, anything not printed by USPCC IMO is sub-par and thus should cost less. I understand shipping prices may have gone up and inflation, etc. but I would have hoped after reading the above quote that the decks would only be a few dollars more. Adding in the printer downgrade makes the price even further off.

I also understand that Lorenzo received a great sample from Cartamundi and wanted to create a custom deck with the new stock/finish.
I had concerns as well. My experience with Cartamundi decks isn't fantastic, which is why I only went in for a pair.

Mine came in today and I gotta say, these feel amazing and handle really, really well. I'm actually pretty disappointed at this point that I only grabbed the pair.
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Re: Ravn purple

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

vasta41 wrote:Great, I'm glad I clicked on this thread to read some insightful comments on playing cards. Oh wait... nope, just Bruno working hard trying to get banned.
Paul (and everyone), Bruno did manage to make it big enough to get a two week ban, so it has been quiet since Wednesday. On the 20th that expires.

Let's keep the conversation on topic. That's the last and only thing that I will say about it.
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Re: Ravn purple

Unread post by Paul Middleton »

vedus wrote: Mine came in today and I gotta say, these feel amazing and handle really, really well. I'm actually pretty disappointed at this point that I only grabbed the pair.
The Butterflies are some of my favourite decks, the cardistry finish that Cartamundi is developing is getting better and better.
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Re: Ravn purple

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

Paul Middleton wrote:
vedus wrote: Mine came in today and I gotta say, these feel amazing and handle really, really well. I'm actually pretty disappointed at this point that I only grabbed the pair.
The Butterflies are some of my favourite decks, the cardistry finish that Cartamundi is developing is getting better and better.
No question that the latest combination of 310gsm Cambric finish with their Cardistry 9C² varnish works! They are smooth handling decks!
>Mike<
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Re: Ravn purple

Unread post by chach »

Got mine in a day or so ago. While they have smooth action, and are nicer than some recent offerings coming from the Far East but they just don't feel right to me. Not much spring in them, they stay bent after a few riffle shuffles and I'd almost call into question the 310gsm paper. I personally will stick with the USPCC printed versions.
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Re: Ravn purple

Unread post by Azid »

Got mine today and i'm impressed by the quality from Cartamundi. When the campaign launched i wasn't sure what to expect by changing from USPCC to Cartamundi for this edition. This is my first deck with their new finish and i really really like it.
To me it feels like USPCC crushed stock, fans very good and the registration is perfect. Thumbs up for Cartamundi, i hope they keep up producing decks with that finish & quality. I think we have a serious third competitor for the future against USPCC & the Taiwan Printer used by Expert, Legends & Hanson Chien.
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