Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread postby TwoPieceFeed » Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:00 am  

jerichoholic wrote:Jackson is now stooping to new lows. He has just refunded my Legal Tender pledge, preventing me from making comments on the project. He's resorting to silencing people, or at least me, for commenting on stuff that is effectively his own doing in this case.

I simply posted a comment that he should not sell something without knowing if he will be able to deliver, in this case the holographic strips, which I don't think is much to ask of a playing card creator. Make some samples, test it out. I also commented that considering the delays and how much he made on the project that he could have airmailed the decks from Taiwan instead of causing another 1 month delay.

Apparently he is still sending me the 2 decks I pledged for but I'm not sure I will back anymore of his projects. Not if he can't handle some criticism.

Rightfully so.

There's a difference between criticism and incessant/annoying nagging. What you do is the latter. It's obnoxious, unnecessary, and IMO the world would be better without it. You do the same thing on Kickstarter as you do here, and that is; repeat the same negative feedback over, and over, and over... We get it, you have an opinion and want to be heard, but I (and I think the majority) would prefer it if you did it once and got over it. Please stop acting like a child.

Has everyone else forgotten that Jackson's family suffered a tragic, severely tragic, loss recently? I'm a man involved in a business' design, engineering, and manufacturing fields. I can sort-of relate to Mr. Robinson's profession. I can also relate, some-what, to the loss of his family. I had a similar loss, and while JR may be a stronger man than me, it took me 4 years until I was "me" again. I can't help but be empathetic to his feelings and how it would impact his career and job. It's still his passion. You still have to deliver quality art, materials, and timing. However, being in a similar business, I can completely understanding manufacturing expectations and being unable (or delayed) in delivering. It happens rarely but it never doesn't happen. If your continued criticism of pushing the envelope truly affected the business then where would people and their projects like Lotrek and his be..? We wouldn't have new and excellent innovations. More often then not they come to fruition but sometimes (Legal Tender) it just doesn't work because the tolerance or application just isn't feasible after trials.

I'm proud of my Jackson Robinson collection and I am glad that he's continuing to make innovations to his style, artwork, and products. Everything you back on Kickstarter is an investment and all of them are subject to changes, delays, and occasional let-downs. Investments guarantee nothing. He holds himself to high standards and does his best to make fans, collectors, and etc happy. You can't make everyone happy, and IMO shouldn't try, because it's his passion and WE (the people) are the beneficiaries of his talents more than anyone else.

I suggest that anyone with a bone to pick sincerely re-evaluates their emotional temperaments.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread postby jerichoholic » Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:35 am  

I may do that at times but that wasn't the case here.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread postby vasta41 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:51 am  

There's no question Jackson is trying to ignore negative comments and suggestions- he hasn't posted on this site since the onset of the Legal Tender project. If I made a mistake like JR and promised something I couldn't deliver, it would be tough but I would face my adversaries and apologize. I would also try to have my finger on the pulse of the playing card community because, after all, that would be how I get paid. Ignoring criticism (constructive or not) is no way to ever improve the quality of your work or help your reputation. It's hard to see the mistakes you make and improve on them when your head is buried so deep in the sand.

This project is the first Jackson campaign I didn't back. And boy am I relieved. The guy is a phenomenal artist, there's no denying that. And I don't even fault him for trying to make money by jacking up prices. But I'm done paying premium prices for decks that either aren't delivered as advertised or simply aren't premium at all.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread postby Marcus » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:08 am  

shaitani wrote:That said, I do think he's wrong, unless you're actually disrupting the project in some meaningful way, that's a harmful type of censorship. Everything I've heard you complain about in Legal Tender has been valid and JR needs to hear it. If he keeps it up and keeps silencing any criticism, his work will stagnate and his reputation will be too damaged. I hope he's not going down that path because I do like his work overall, and I don't want him to bury his reputation like he seems to be doing.


JR, just like any other business owner, is free to not do business with certain individuals if he so chooses. Over the course of 20+ projects and likely over 40 decks by now (depending on how you count different editions), less than a handful of people have had their pledges refunded without asking for it. It's one thing to express criticism and one thing to badger on and on with the same complaints again and again, and for multiple projects. Victor is obviously never happy with a project by KWP considering his repeated comments about them, so I can fully understand why JR decided to cancel his pledges. Less of a headache for both parties. A few members here have expressed criticism for either this project or Legal Tender, yet only one of them has had their pledge refunded. It's not about criticism, it's about how you express it. It's not censorship any more than when a restaurant turns away a customer who can't behave with some manner. I'll agree that the last two comments on the LT project was fine, but not so much in the past and my guess is that this has been building up for several projects.

(And, just to cover all my bases, I should probably point out that I'm no longer a KWP employee and haven't been for a few months, so this is my response as a fellow backer and nothing else.)
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread postby shaitani » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:05 am  

Marcus wrote:
shaitani wrote:That said, I do think he's wrong, unless you're actually disrupting the project in some meaningful way, that's a harmful type of censorship. Everything I've heard you complain about in Legal Tender has been valid and JR needs to hear it. If he keeps it up and keeps silencing any criticism, his work will stagnate and his reputation will be too damaged. I hope he's not going down that path because I do like his work overall, and I don't want him to bury his reputation like he seems to be doing.


JR, just like any other business owner, is free to not do business with certain individuals if he so chooses. Over the course of 20+ projects and likely over 40 decks by now (depending on how you count different editions), less than a handful of people have had their pledges refunded without asking for it. It's one thing to express criticism and one thing to badger on and on with the same complaints again and again, and for multiple projects. Victor is obviously never happy with a project by KWP considering his repeated comments about them, so I can fully understand why JR decided to cancel his pledges. Less of a headache for both parties. A few members here have expressed criticism for either this project or Legal Tender, yet only one of them has had their pledge refunded. It's not about criticism, it's about how you express it. It's not censorship any more than when a restaurant turns away a customer who can't behave with some manner. I'll agree that the last two comments on the LT project was fine, but not so much in the past and my guess is that this has been building up for several projects.

(And, just to cover all my bases, I should probably point out that I'm no longer a KWP employee and haven't been for a few months, so this is my response as a fellow backer and nothing else.)


All fair. I'm trying to make the distinction between "censoring" a disruptful customer and actually censoring valid criticism. I totally understand the former, but I do believe the latter to be a problem, and I'm expressing my sincere desire for things not to go that way because the complaints I have heard on the topic so far have been valid (I'm not a Legal Tender backer so I'm just going by what I'm hearing). You make a good point about JR likely building up resentment over time and over multiple projects, so that's very likely what's happening here. My wish here is simply that we don't see people getting kicked off of projects for stating valid criticisms.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread postby Marcus » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:37 pm  

shaitani wrote:My wish here is simply that we don't see people getting kicked off of projects for stating valid criticisms.


I see where you're coming from here, and I believe this will be a self-cleansing issue if ever it were to happen with any creator and project. If a creator were to kick backers off of their projects for voicing criticism in general, backers would probably turn against the creator and the projects would fail. Pure guess work on my behalf of course, but I don't believe it to be a major concern. And if it happens every once in a blue moon that a backer gets refunded and kicked off of a project, I believe there's usually good reason for it.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread postby jerichoholic » Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:34 pm  

Marcus wrote:
shaitani wrote:That said, I do think he's wrong, unless you're actually disrupting the project in some meaningful way, that's a harmful type of censorship. Everything I've heard you complain about in Legal Tender has been valid and JR needs to hear it. If he keeps it up and keeps silencing any criticism, his work will stagnate and his reputation will be too damaged. I hope he's not going down that path because I do like his work overall, and I don't want him to bury his reputation like he seems to be doing.


JR, just like any other business owner, is free to not do business with certain individuals if he so chooses. Over the course of 20+ projects and likely over 40 decks by now (depending on how you count different editions), less than a handful of people have had their pledges refunded without asking for it. It's one thing to express criticism and one thing to badger on and on with the same complaints again and again, and for multiple projects. Victor is obviously never happy with a project by KWP considering his repeated comments about them, so I can fully understand why JR decided to cancel his pledges. Less of a headache for both parties. A few members here have expressed criticism for either this project or Legal Tender, yet only one of them has had their pledge refunded. It's not about criticism, it's about how you express it. It's not censorship any more than when a restaurant turns away a customer who can't behave with some manner. I'll agree that the last two comments on the LT project was fine, but not so much in the past and my guess is that this has been building up for several projects.

(And, just to cover all my bases, I should probably point out that I'm no longer a KWP employee and haven't been for a few months, so this is my response as a fellow backer and nothing else.)


If I wasn't happy with his decks then I wouldn't be buying them. Sure I've had some complaints about prices or delays or in this case not delivering what backers paid for. But as a customer when we buy something advertised on a site we expect to get what we paid for, which we are not. Marcus can you tell me why Jackson couldn't bother to test out fool strips before selling the decks? Because it was a pretty big selling feature. Same with the special box in this current project.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread postby JuFiN » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:08 pm  

Maybe you should stop backing kickstarter projects if that is you point of view. Kickstarter isn't a store front, there is no guarantee you get anything. I suggest ellusionist.com

Also you weren't kicked out of the project for criticism you were kicked off for spamming... Every update you ask "Is there foil? I don't see foil" even though it has been made pretty clear that there is no foil as you are well aware, move on and stop spamming. If you aren't sure the box on the current project will come out in a way you will like its simple. You don't pay for it. What you shouldn't do is spam 5 comments in the comments section attacking him for the lack of foil on a completely different project... its incessant.

What are you hoping his response will be anyway?
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread postby jerichoholic » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:25 pm  

Wow that couldn't be farther from the truth. I've only brought up the foil a couple of times, not "every" update.

And since most creators treat Kickstarter like a store, I disagree with your other comment.

I don't know what his response would be but I was just hoping for some kind of response instead my comments were ignored and I was censored.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread postby JuFiN » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:45 pm  

They don't treat it like a store, otherwise the prices would be higher.

We get a discount price on kickstarter because the product doesn't exist, because of this there is the obvious risk that in the end it wont be exactly as originally planned. By taking on this risk we receive the benefit of lower pricing. If you want risk free buying then purchase after market, but of course given the lack of risk the price will be higher.

Omnia for example was $12 a deck on kickstarter and now when the product has been produced and all risks and challenges in the past its $17 on ebay and his website (the actual store).

If you want 100% guarantee then don't use kickstarter. And the fact that he refunded you and is STILL shipping you the decks is a much better return policy than any store I have been to, so in this case you got an even better deal than you would have had you bought a product you were unhappy with from a store.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread postby vasta41 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:03 am  

jerichoholic wrote:I don't know what his response would be but I was just hoping for some kind of response...


Whether or not he went about it the right way Victor does have a point here. Seems as though JR only stops by here when things are rosy and going well. When the $#it hits the fan, where is he? It would be nice for him to post here about the issues and problems he's having if for no other reason than to be open and honest. It might even go a little ways in rebuilding his reputation. Hell, even Roger Goodell finally decided to go to Foxborough. But it's also possible JR doesn't give a crap about this site because people are still funding his project trifold despite what we think and do.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread postby bamabenz » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:05 am  

vasta41 wrote:
jerichoholic wrote:I don't know what his response would be but I was just hoping for some kind of response...


Whether or not he went about it the right way Victor does have a point here. Seems as though JR only stops by here when things are rosy and going well. When the $#it hits the fan, where is he? It would be nice for him to post here about the issues and problems he's having if for no other reason than to be open and honest. It might even go a little ways in rebuilding his reputation. Hell, even Roger Goodell finally decided to go to Foxborough. But it's also possible JR doesn't give a crap about this site because people are still funding his project trifold despite what we think and do.


Do you guys ever stop and listen to yourselves? You appear to be under the delusion that Jackson has an obligation to engage with the petty, childish, mean idiots who plague this forum.

:ucstar: :ucstar: Newsflash :ucstar: :ucstar: -- he doesn't.
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Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread postby jsantafe » Thu Mar 30, 2017 1:11 am  

The more you know!!!
Today's lesson Marketing 101 best practices: reach to your audience, act, convert and engage with your customers. Listen, interact and learn/adapt.
Is it an obligation? No. But not every producer has an easy direct way to communicate with a big group of his idiotic clients.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread postby sinjin7 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:38 am  

bamabenz wrote:Do you guys ever stop and listen to yourselves? You appear to be under the delusion that Jackson has an obligation to engage with the petty, childish, mean idiots who plague this forum.

:ucstar: :ucstar: Newsflash :ucstar: :ucstar: -- he doesn't.

The comment above seems to be a petty, childish, mean and idiotic statement that's plaguing this forum.

Are you really that bent out of shape that we're sometimes critical of your precious Jackson? Perhaps your time would be better spent on YouTube watching all of Jackson's videos instead. It seems like promoting his YouTube channel and pumping out videos is one of Jackson's main endeavors now. Go ahead and get his viewer count up on his videos, and click on an ad or two while you're at it so he can get another stream of income in addition to making playing cards.

While I respect your right to be petty, childish, mean and idiotic, we'd all prefer if you could be a more productive member of this community by recognizing that while not everyone likes the same artists you do, we can still remain civil in our disagreements.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread postby Gareth » Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:55 am  

bamabenz wrote:You appear to be under the delusion that Jackson has an obligation to engage with ...

You know, once upon a time Jackson seemed human. He discussed his decisions, sometimes he even took on ideas floating here or elsewhere.

Today he seems, distant, at times arrogant. There don't seemed to be many real apologies anymore, mainly excuses and refund offers. That "take it or leave" it approach that now seems to displayed at every turn - particularly when a mistake or hidden change is revealed - makes me feel as if he's mentally on some higher plane that can't be touched or questioned.

Sure, people here and elsewhere have been unduly harsh at times, and rude too - but he, his work and the community are all diminished by the his more reclusive work.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread postby Stepchild » Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:41 am  

I wish the guy the best -- and am currently into this project at a silly, budget-ignoring level -- but the idea of making a living at designing playing cards can quickly reveal itself to be a delusion, particularly if one poisons the water at one's deepest well of support...
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread postby chach » Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:03 pm  

Gareth wrote:
Today he seems, distant, at times arrogant. There don't seemed to be many real apologies anymore, mainly excuses and refund offers. That "take it or leave" it approach that now seems to displayed at every turn - particularly when a mistake or hidden change is revealed - makes me feel as if he's mentally on some higher plane that can't be touched or questioned.



Well, he is from Texas after all, par for the course I'd say. ;)

Personally I can't think of a KW project since Fed 52 Part Deux that didn't have some sort of SNAFU that wasn't completely and utterly bungled by Jackson. Good artist, horrible manager and frankly the person he's hired to manage for him now IMO ain't doing much better.

It will be interesting to see how Tally Ho Pearl & this Arthurian deck eventually turn out, but in the meantime ask yourself how the backers of the tactical black Tally Ho are feeling about ol Jack$on.

There are some designers that will get my money on every project, Jack$on used to be one of those people. "Used to" being the key phrase there. He earned that $ in Jack$on when it was obvious he was nickel and dime-ing people on everything from shipping & handling to releasing extras of Ltd Edition decks. And now if we want a full update we have to watch a YouTube video which guess what, generates ad revenue for him. :roll: Then he started failing on statements made in campaigns and back pedaling on promises like the one he made to us about providing a bonus to UC members on one of his projects (newsflash, he didn't deliver) but then throwing a bitch fit when we called him on it. Really wish I could find that thread because his true colors were shining as bright and clear as the Cyndi Lauper song.

Now I either back with a basic pledge and no expectations or not at all with a wait and see how it turns out mentality. He just can't be trusted anymore and even the aftermarket is reflecting that. Hell I can't even unload the Texas Legacy Deck I have for what I paid.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread postby Justin O. » Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:40 pm  

chach wrote:Jack$on.


This seems unnecessary.

I think Jackson is being vilified way beyond what is reasonable here.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread postby jsantafe » Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:32 pm  

I agree with Justin on this one. Criticism is on point, but let's keep some perspective.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread postby Marcus » Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:49 pm  

With all due respect, when we can't keep a higher standard than name calling I'm going to bow out and spend my energy on better things than discussions like this.
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