Kings Wild Project, Arthurian

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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by jsantafe »

Hahaha!
That could be a thing, yes!
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by rorschach »

I would agree. More specifically it is mimicking that of a manuscript, in which case I would say the artwork is well done.
jsantafe wrote:I feel it reflects medieval art decently, doesn't it?


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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by jsantafe »

Book of Kells

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Maybe it could be more elaborate seing the original inspiration, but it's still nice art. Not amazing but adding the topic and the Camelot tuck (if done as presented) makes itba good project, imo.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by jsantafe »

Book of Kells

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Image

Maybe it could be more elaborate seing the original inspiration, but it's still nice art. Not amazing but adding the topic and the Camelot tuck (if done as presented) makes itba good project, imo.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by shaitani »

JR updated the KS with a new add-on for the Camelot Edition pledgers to be able to add a demo deck.
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Several comments from me:

1. Business-wise it's a smart move for him to only allow Camelot Edition pledgers to add this to their pledge.
But customer-wise, it's kind of annoying. Some people don't have or don't want to spend $42+ to grab a Camelot edition, so why not offer them the demo deck for let's say $10?

2. I kind of prefer if he didn't create the 'excalibur edition' at all. The tuck is pretty weak, the art is just a lesser version of the camelot art in every conceivable way. It's still not really affordable. So I don't really see the point.

3. Tangent rant: why do people call them "display decks". They should be called almost literally anything else. 'Display' is exactly what they're not for. They should be called "demo decks" or "player decks" or "user decks" or something.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by PrincessTrouble »

shaitani wrote: 3. Tangent rant: why do people call them "display decks". They should be called almost literally anything else. 'Display' is exactly what they're not for. They should be called "demo decks" or "player decks" or "user decks" or something.
I feel exactly the same way. The fancy tucks are display decks. These are player decks.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by rousselle »

Okay, if I recall correctly (and, I'm really too lazy at the moment to look up the original justification that JR gave with the first time he included display decks... was it the Scarlet Tally's?), the reason these are called display decks is because the cards themselves can be displayed, without having to break open a fancy shmancy tuck seal. Hence, a display deck is a deck of display cards. It's not a display tuck.

That's how I read it, anyway. Your mileage clearly may vary.

As it is, I've been sitting on the fence on this one, leaning toward "no." I'm now sitting on the fence, leaning toward "yes." The addition of the display deck definitely makes a difference for me. And, while I agree with others that it would be nicer to have the display deck option (even if it's at a slightly higher price) for non-Camelot backers, I don't think this approach is unreasonable. In theory, the only people who end up with the display decks are people who have the tucks that those decks would appear within....
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by RichK »

rousselle wrote:Okay, if I recall correctly (and, I'm really too lazy at the moment to look up the original justification that JR gave with the first time he included display decks... was it the Scarlet Tally's?)
I looked. It was the Independence (Continental/Crown) for the Limited Edt. was his first "deck to look at without Limited breaking seals". They were for the Ltd. backers only. Free too.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by montecarlojoe »

It was also a way to offer an edition of the deck that was smaller than the minimum print run - 4000 decks at the time I think?

Minimum tuck runs were much smaller, and the plain tuck is obviously cheaper to produce.

2000 Decks + 500 LE + 1500 Display has more marketing potential than 4000 straight decks! (Not meant as a negative criticism - pretty smart if you ask me)
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by EndersGame »

I actually like the look of the Arthurian deck a lot - the court cards look fantastic!
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by TGunitedcardists »

montecarlojoe wrote:It was also a way to offer an edition of the deck that was smaller than the minimum print run - 4000 decks at the time I think?

Minimum tuck runs were much smaller, and the plain tuck is obviously cheaper to produce.

2000 Decks + 500 LE + 1500 Display has more marketing potential than 4000 straight decks! (Not meant as a negative criticism - pretty smart if you ask me)
Exactly. I'm on the fence still. I'm leaning towards PASS, but, still unsure. If I do pledge, it would be for one Excalibur Edition. I'd like to pick up a display deck, but that's not how it's structured.

For all the complaining (I was one of them) that this project wasn't up to par, Jackson Robinson hit $61,000+ already, and I don't think this deck comes close to the quality of many of his past projects! He's a machine with a massive card playing list.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by Bruno »

Jacksons output predominantly being US-centric, this project mines a Euro-centric subject, giving those across the pond a hit.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by JuFiN »

My issue is that the Camelot version is strictly better artwork wise but because of the custom case its $36 which is way more than i'm willing to pay for a deck just because of nice art seeing as i'm not interested in the tuck so much on this one.

Then the Excalibur edition is more reasonably priced at $12, but then add $4 for shipping and that again is a higher price than the vast majority of decks with similar features. I wouldn't mind paying that extra if I felt the art justified it. But in this case given that the art is strictly worse than that of the Camelot deck it just feels i'm being ripped off no matter what version I get. If I could take the deck from Camelot edition and stick it in the Excalibur edition box and therefore pay the $16 for it I would back in an instant, but as is i'm still sitting this one out.

That said, If money was no object I would be all over this as the art is quite good in my opinion. Just a little overpriced for me, and it feels somehow wrong that the he made such a beautiful deck as the Camelot and then seemingly removed a bunch of features for no reason because its not like it costs him extra to have better artwork, for the sole purpose of forcing those who want the real completed version to pay double just because its in a silly tuck. And then STILL asks premium pricing for the ugly step brother version of the same deck. blah...
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by chach »

JuFiN wrote:it feels somehow wrong that the he made such a beautiful deck as the Camelot and then seemingly removed a bunch of features for no reason because its not like it costs him extra to have better artwork, for the sole purpose of forcing those who want the real completed version to pay double just because its in a silly tuck. And then STILL asks premium pricing for the ugly step brother version of the same deck. blah...
Exactly this. No reason to put out a deck with sub-par artwork. Put Camelot in a regular tuck and I'd back it. Force me to buy a gimmicky tuck that probably won't be anything like its render and I'll waive from the sidelines.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by ecNate »

Yes yes yes. If only he had used the quality art and skipped the half effort I would have been all over this. Not going to spend money on a deck I don't want just to get one I do, and then over pay for a tuck I also don't feel that she worth it. Maybe next time.


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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by jerichoholic »

Am I the only one getting tired of Jackson Robinson just slightly modifying the courts/faces of the limited edition deck by adding unnecessary borders? At least with some previous decks he recolored the courts a bit, not the case in this one.

Oddly enough I much prefer the court cards on the standard deck and the backs of the limited deck. Pass for me, too many other better decks on KS at the moment and still waiting on his last 2 projects to deliver.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by jsantafe »

The more all campaigns start to look like Minty's, the better for us all.


Although I confess I pledged here
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by Justin O. »

jsantafe wrote:The more all campaigns start to look like Minty's, the better for us all.


Although I confess I pledged here
What makes Steve Minty projects worthwhile? I backed a few and found them to be pretty run of the mill kickstarter projects, not bad, but not great. They just exist.
Jackson completely revolutionized the way I waste money...
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by jerichoholic »

Jackson is now stooping to new lows. He has just refunded my Legal Tender pledge, preventing me from making comments on the project. He's resorting to silencing people, or at least me, for commenting on stuff that is effectively his own doing in this case.

I simply posted a comment that he should not sell something without knowing if he will be able to deliver, in this case the holographic strips, which I don't think is much to ask of a playing card creator. Make some samples, test it out. I also commented that considering the delays and how much he made on the project that he could have airmailed the decks from Taiwan instead of causing another 1 month delay.

Apparently he is still sending me the 2 decks I pledged for but I'm not sure I will back anymore of his projects. Not if he can't handle some criticism.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by shaitani »

jerichoholic wrote:Jackson is now stooping to new lows. He has just refunded my Legal Tender pledge, preventing me from making comments on the project. He's resorting to silencing people, or at least me, for commenting on stuff that is effectively his own doing in this case.

I simply posted a comment that he should not sell something without knowing if he will be able to deliver, in this case the holographic strips, which I don't think is much to ask of a playing card creator. Make some samples, test it out. I also commented that considering the delays and how much he made on the project that he could have airmailed the decks from Taiwan instead of causing another 1 month delay.

Apparently he is still sending me the 2 decks I pledged for but I'm not sure I will back anymore of his projects. Not if he can't handle some criticism.
My guess would be that he is tired of your comments in particular due to your relatively unpleasant manner of speaking your mind. So I understand why he would do that, he probably wants to cut down on the extremely negative comments. That said, I do think he's wrong, unless you're actually disrupting the project in some meaningful way, that's a harmful type of censorship. Everything I've heard you complain about in Legal Tender has been valid and JR needs to hear it. If he keeps it up and keeps silencing any criticism, his work will stagnate and his reputation will be too damaged. I hope he's not going down that path because I do like his work overall, and I don't want him to bury his reputation like he seems to be doing.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by theCapraAegagrus »

jerichoholic wrote:Jackson is now stooping to new lows. He has just refunded my Legal Tender pledge, preventing me from making comments on the project. He's resorting to silencing people, or at least me, for commenting on stuff that is effectively his own doing in this case.

I simply posted a comment that he should not sell something without knowing if he will be able to deliver, in this case the holographic strips, which I don't think is much to ask of a playing card creator. Make some samples, test it out. I also commented that considering the delays and how much he made on the project that he could have airmailed the decks from Taiwan instead of causing another 1 month delay.

Apparently he is still sending me the 2 decks I pledged for but I'm not sure I will back anymore of his projects. Not if he can't handle some criticism.
Rightfully so.

There's a difference between criticism and incessant/annoying nagging. What you do is the latter. It's obnoxious, unnecessary, and IMO the world would be better without it. You do the same thing on Kickstarter as you do here, and that is; repeat the same negative feedback over, and over, and over... We get it, you have an opinion and want to be heard, but I (and I think the majority) would prefer it if you did it once and got over it. Please stop acting like a child.

Has everyone else forgotten that Jackson's family suffered a tragic, severely tragic, loss recently? I'm a man involved in a business' design, engineering, and manufacturing fields. I can sort-of relate to Mr. Robinson's profession. I can also relate, some-what, to the loss of his family. I had a similar loss, and while JR may be a stronger man than me, it took me 4 years until I was "me" again. I can't help but be empathetic to his feelings and how it would impact his career and job. It's still his passion. You still have to deliver quality art, materials, and timing. However, being in a similar business, I can completely understanding manufacturing expectations and being unable (or delayed) in delivering. It happens rarely but it never doesn't happen. If your continued criticism of pushing the envelope truly affected the business then where would people and their projects like Lotrek and his be..? We wouldn't have new and excellent innovations. More often then not they come to fruition but sometimes (Legal Tender) it just doesn't work because the tolerance or application just isn't feasible after trials.

I'm proud of my Jackson Robinson collection and I am glad that he's continuing to make innovations to his style, artwork, and products. Everything you back on Kickstarter is an investment and all of them are subject to changes, delays, and occasional let-downs. Investments guarantee nothing. He holds himself to high standards and does his best to make fans, collectors, and etc happy. You can't make everyone happy, and IMO shouldn't try, because it's his passion and WE (the people) are the beneficiaries of his talents more than anyone else.

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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by jerichoholic »

I may do that at times but that wasn't the case here.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by vasta41 »

There's no question Jackson is trying to ignore negative comments and suggestions- he hasn't posted on this site since the onset of the Legal Tender project. If I made a mistake like JR and promised something I couldn't deliver, it would be tough but I would face my adversaries and apologize. I would also try to have my finger on the pulse of the playing card community because, after all, that would be how I get paid. Ignoring criticism (constructive or not) is no way to ever improve the quality of your work or help your reputation. It's hard to see the mistakes you make and improve on them when your head is buried so deep in the sand.

This project is the first Jackson campaign I didn't back. And boy am I relieved. The guy is a phenomenal artist, there's no denying that. And I don't even fault him for trying to make money by jacking up prices. But I'm done paying premium prices for decks that either aren't delivered as advertised or simply aren't premium at all.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by Marcus »

shaitani wrote:That said, I do think he's wrong, unless you're actually disrupting the project in some meaningful way, that's a harmful type of censorship. Everything I've heard you complain about in Legal Tender has been valid and JR needs to hear it. If he keeps it up and keeps silencing any criticism, his work will stagnate and his reputation will be too damaged. I hope he's not going down that path because I do like his work overall, and I don't want him to bury his reputation like he seems to be doing.
JR, just like any other business owner, is free to not do business with certain individuals if he so chooses. Over the course of 20+ projects and likely over 40 decks by now (depending on how you count different editions), less than a handful of people have had their pledges refunded without asking for it. It's one thing to express criticism and one thing to badger on and on with the same complaints again and again, and for multiple projects. Victor is obviously never happy with a project by KWP considering his repeated comments about them, so I can fully understand why JR decided to cancel his pledges. Less of a headache for both parties. A few members here have expressed criticism for either this project or Legal Tender, yet only one of them has had their pledge refunded. It's not about criticism, it's about how you express it. It's not censorship any more than when a restaurant turns away a customer who can't behave with some manner. I'll agree that the last two comments on the LT project was fine, but not so much in the past and my guess is that this has been building up for several projects.

(And, just to cover all my bases, I should probably point out that I'm no longer a KWP employee and haven't been for a few months, so this is my response as a fellow backer and nothing else.)
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by shaitani »

Marcus wrote:
shaitani wrote:That said, I do think he's wrong, unless you're actually disrupting the project in some meaningful way, that's a harmful type of censorship. Everything I've heard you complain about in Legal Tender has been valid and JR needs to hear it. If he keeps it up and keeps silencing any criticism, his work will stagnate and his reputation will be too damaged. I hope he's not going down that path because I do like his work overall, and I don't want him to bury his reputation like he seems to be doing.
JR, just like any other business owner, is free to not do business with certain individuals if he so chooses. Over the course of 20+ projects and likely over 40 decks by now (depending on how you count different editions), less than a handful of people have had their pledges refunded without asking for it. It's one thing to express criticism and one thing to badger on and on with the same complaints again and again, and for multiple projects. Victor is obviously never happy with a project by KWP considering his repeated comments about them, so I can fully understand why JR decided to cancel his pledges. Less of a headache for both parties. A few members here have expressed criticism for either this project or Legal Tender, yet only one of them has had their pledge refunded. It's not about criticism, it's about how you express it. It's not censorship any more than when a restaurant turns away a customer who can't behave with some manner. I'll agree that the last two comments on the LT project was fine, but not so much in the past and my guess is that this has been building up for several projects.

(And, just to cover all my bases, I should probably point out that I'm no longer a KWP employee and haven't been for a few months, so this is my response as a fellow backer and nothing else.)
All fair. I'm trying to make the distinction between "censoring" a disruptful customer and actually censoring valid criticism. I totally understand the former, but I do believe the latter to be a problem, and I'm expressing my sincere desire for things not to go that way because the complaints I have heard on the topic so far have been valid (I'm not a Legal Tender backer so I'm just going by what I'm hearing). You make a good point about JR likely building up resentment over time and over multiple projects, so that's very likely what's happening here. My wish here is simply that we don't see people getting kicked off of projects for stating valid criticisms.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by Marcus »

shaitani wrote:My wish here is simply that we don't see people getting kicked off of projects for stating valid criticisms.
I see where you're coming from here, and I believe this will be a self-cleansing issue if ever it were to happen with any creator and project. If a creator were to kick backers off of their projects for voicing criticism in general, backers would probably turn against the creator and the projects would fail. Pure guess work on my behalf of course, but I don't believe it to be a major concern. And if it happens every once in a blue moon that a backer gets refunded and kicked off of a project, I believe there's usually good reason for it.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by jerichoholic »

Marcus wrote:
shaitani wrote:That said, I do think he's wrong, unless you're actually disrupting the project in some meaningful way, that's a harmful type of censorship. Everything I've heard you complain about in Legal Tender has been valid and JR needs to hear it. If he keeps it up and keeps silencing any criticism, his work will stagnate and his reputation will be too damaged. I hope he's not going down that path because I do like his work overall, and I don't want him to bury his reputation like he seems to be doing.
JR, just like any other business owner, is free to not do business with certain individuals if he so chooses. Over the course of 20+ projects and likely over 40 decks by now (depending on how you count different editions), less than a handful of people have had their pledges refunded without asking for it. It's one thing to express criticism and one thing to badger on and on with the same complaints again and again, and for multiple projects. Victor is obviously never happy with a project by KWP considering his repeated comments about them, so I can fully understand why JR decided to cancel his pledges. Less of a headache for both parties. A few members here have expressed criticism for either this project or Legal Tender, yet only one of them has had their pledge refunded. It's not about criticism, it's about how you express it. It's not censorship any more than when a restaurant turns away a customer who can't behave with some manner. I'll agree that the last two comments on the LT project was fine, but not so much in the past and my guess is that this has been building up for several projects.

(And, just to cover all my bases, I should probably point out that I'm no longer a KWP employee and haven't been for a few months, so this is my response as a fellow backer and nothing else.)
If I wasn't happy with his decks then I wouldn't be buying them. Sure I've had some complaints about prices or delays or in this case not delivering what backers paid for. But as a customer when we buy something advertised on a site we expect to get what we paid for, which we are not. Marcus can you tell me why Jackson couldn't bother to test out fool strips before selling the decks? Because it was a pretty big selling feature. Same with the special box in this current project.
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JuFiN
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by JuFiN »

Maybe you should stop backing kickstarter projects if that is you point of view. Kickstarter isn't a store front, there is no guarantee you get anything. I suggest ellusionist.com

Also you weren't kicked out of the project for criticism you were kicked off for spamming... Every update you ask "Is there foil? I don't see foil" even though it has been made pretty clear that there is no foil as you are well aware, move on and stop spamming. If you aren't sure the box on the current project will come out in a way you will like its simple. You don't pay for it. What you shouldn't do is spam 5 comments in the comments section attacking him for the lack of foil on a completely different project... its incessant.

What are you hoping his response will be anyway?
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by jerichoholic »

Wow that couldn't be farther from the truth. I've only brought up the foil a couple of times, not "every" update.

And since most creators treat Kickstarter like a store, I disagree with your other comment.

I don't know what his response would be but I was just hoping for some kind of response instead my comments were ignored and I was censored.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by JuFiN »

They don't treat it like a store, otherwise the prices would be higher.

We get a discount price on kickstarter because the product doesn't exist, because of this there is the obvious risk that in the end it wont be exactly as originally planned. By taking on this risk we receive the benefit of lower pricing. If you want risk free buying then purchase after market, but of course given the lack of risk the price will be higher.

Omnia for example was $12 a deck on kickstarter and now when the product has been produced and all risks and challenges in the past its $17 on ebay and his website (the actual store).

If you want 100% guarantee then don't use kickstarter. And the fact that he refunded you and is STILL shipping you the decks is a much better return policy than any store I have been to, so in this case you got an even better deal than you would have had you bought a product you were unhappy with from a store.
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