Kings Wild Project, Arthurian

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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by Stepchild »

Straws. I am out of them.


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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by sinjin7 »

RichK wrote:No, it wasn't cool to let others get the display deck.

Jackson said in one of his videos that he has a hard time putting in text what he can say out loud. I know it was in reaction to us backers being angry about some change he did to a card deck or lack of updates or something.

As for Delanie she needs some updating work. Sure saying "all is on track" doesn't cut it. I don't know about her messaging responses, if she or Jackson handles that. Marcus was excellent.
Jackson has a hard time putting in text what he can say out loud? Really? So it's easier to set up all the equipment, shoot the video (possibly taking multiple takes in doing it), edit the video, take the time to upload it to YouTube, and then link it all to a KS update than it is to sit down and simply type a paragraph or two? Please. I think he's just trying to build up his YouTube channel by forcing us to watch his videos through KS. It's actually kind of genius in a narcissistic, it's-all-about-me-screw-the-convenience-of-my-backers kind of way.

Jackson is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't in many regards, but it's mainly self-inflicted. Take the "display" deck for instance. Initially, you could only get it by pledging for an uber-expensive tier. People will inevitably complain about not being able to get access to the display deck without taking out another mortgage. So Jackson makes one display deck available to the masses at the last second, which pleases the masses, but screws the very backers who laid out the most money for him. What he should've done was had the "display" deck available to all from the start, or not made the standard deck so inferior (for lack of a better term) than the "limited" deck, imo. He's run enough campaigns to know better, but he does this to squeeze the most money out of his backers (which he is entitled to do) instead of catering to his backers preference and convenience.

Let's take Delanie's updates as another example. Jackson has a crappy track record communicating with his backers after his campaigns end and he has their money, especially when things go wrong production-wise and he goes radio silent as the delays lengthen. So after 20 freaking campaigns, he finally commits to better communication by hiring somebody who's sole purpose is to communicate and update on a weekly basis, and all his backers are giving each other high fives and pats on the back. But then comes the stream of "updates" where all Delanie has to say is, "Welp, nothing new to say, everything is on track. See ya next week!" Which is ironic, because hardly any of Jackson's past projects have been on track. So what's better, radio silence or inane, content-less "updates" on a weekly basis? I guess I'll take the weekly "updates". Hell, if I find the updates too tripe, I can always watch videos of Jackson trying too hard to be goofy. . .
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by TGunitedcardists »

sinjin7 wrote:
Jackson is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't in many regards, but it's mainly self-inflicted. Take the "display" deck for instance. Initially, you could only get it by pledging for an uber-expensive tier. People will inevitably complain about not being able to get access to the display deck without taking out another mortgage. So Jackson makes one display deck available to the masses at the last second, which pleases the masses, but screws the very backers who laid out the most money for him. What he should've done was had the "display" deck available to all from the start, or not made the standard deck so inferior (for lack of a better term) than the "limited" deck, imo. He's run enough campaigns to know better, but he does this to squeeze the most money out of his backers (which he is entitled to do) instead of catering to his backers preference and convenience.
I agree. This is correct, in spirit. For him, hitting $64,000 was also correct play, regardless if it was sketchy how the display deck rollout went, especially last minute.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by Bruno »

Well ....
Besides all that stuff, I went in for my first KW project, got some, then in the midst of all the rising flak, got more ....
Compounded the advantage by adding some, then more.
I think I may have two bricks of these goodies.
I'd give youse a breakdown of the whichwhat, but who here cares ?
....'cept as ammo, pathetically.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by jsantafe »

Not sure what you're saying, but everyone here got some from KWP and still do.
That doesn't mean there's room for improvement specially y campaign management.
JS

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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by Bruno »

O yair, def. room fer improvement.
Know what I'm sayin'.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by Marcus »

I can't really even see how the display decks and the actual Camelot editions can be comparable. One is a simple, white tuck with black text on it and nothing else. The other is a proper tuck case similar (but not identical) to the Escalibur edition, and on top of that, an actual extra case that is made to look like a book with gilded pages. (Sure, we can play the "but he has failed to deliver on those special thingies in the past" card here, but this is what he is aiming to do, and since he has made prototypes already I expect these to come out the way he plans.)

If anyone feel upset about the display decks being available to everyone and not just the Camelot backers, by all means - everyone's entitled to their own opinion. But claiming it was done "last minute" or "last second" and calling it "sketchy" (actual quotes here, guys) is quite the stretch. JR sent out an update to everyone mentioning it both in the headline and the actual update, and it was done on March 17th - 18 whole days before the campaign ended. That's 25,920 last minutes, or 1,555,200 last seconds, and clearly communicated to everyone concerned.

If discussions could be kept at a more reasonable and less hyperbole level everyone involved would benefit.

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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by vasta41 »

Marcus wrote:If discussions could be kept at a more reasonable and less hyperbole level everyone involved would benefit.
While everything else you said may be right, until Jackson actually communicates with us here, our discussions can be as "unreasonable" or "hyperbolic" as we want. Because there are still many questions we all have about his recent decisions that are unanswered to this point. Now Jackson doesn't need to come here and explain himself if he doesn't want to but he has caused a lot of backer frustration and without hearing it from the horses mouth we have nothing else to do but speculate. Suggesting any sort of censorship on this matter is preposterous IMO. Jackson is in a different boat than these two guys but if it weren't for this outspoken forum we might never have seen the Mana Sybl decks OR a refund for Imperium. I don't expect Jackson to just stop and change everything he's doing just to appease us but my point is I believe that everyone here benefits when we are outspoken (on matters of playing cards).
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by Bruno »

Yesyes.
But could we excise the blowhardy fabricated critiquing, the insipid weasely whining and moaning, and the leave right out the dangerous underlying subtext of **contempt from some ?
Says more about the posters themselves than anything Jackson could willingly/unwillingly propose.

edit.
** insert >absolute< as neccessary.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by Marcus »

vasta41 wrote:
Marcus wrote:If discussions could be kept at a more reasonable and less hyperbole level everyone involved would benefit.
While everything else you said may be right, until Jackson actually communicates with us here, our discussions can be as "unreasonable" or "hyperbolic" as we want. Because there are still many questions we all have about his recent decisions that are unanswered to this point. Now Jackson doesn't need to come here and explain himself if he doesn't want to but he has caused a lot of backer frustration and without hearing it from the horses mouth we have nothing else to do but speculate. Suggesting any sort of censorship on this matter is preposterous IMO. Jackson is in a different boat than these two guys but if it weren't for this outspoken forum we might never have seen the Mana Sybl decks OR a refund for Imperium. I don't expect Jackson to just stop and change everything he's doing just to appease us but my point is I believe that everyone here benefits when we are outspoken (on matters of playing cards).
You're free to be as reasonable or unreasonable (your word) as you prefer. My point is that when discussions fall to the level of not even being factual anymore, nobody walks away a winner. There is nothing to be gained from that. Calling it censorship when someone asks for a more level-headed discussion climate is the only thing preposterous here. One can state the opinion that making display decks available to everyone feels unfair to Camelot edition backers without letting it devolve into claims about how it was done in a sketchy way or last minute when it clearly was not.

We can make our points, express our opinions be they positive or negative about decks and companies here without resorting to things that ruin the actual climate of the conversations, like the things I've previously pointed out. That is not censorship - it's reason.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by vasta41 »

Marcus wrote:One can state the opinion that making display decks available to everyone feels unfair to Camelot edition backers without letting it devolve into claims about how it was done in a sketchy way or last minute when it clearly was not.
You are speculating as much as the rest of us. Was it literally done last minute? Of course not- it's an expression as I'm sure you know. Sketchy? That's a relative term. But let's stop splitting hairs. I don't feel as strongly as others on this thread and I'm not defending them nor agreeing with them. All I'm trying to say is until Jackson confirms or denies his motives with the display decks (I'll say it again) we can only speculate. The fact is Jackson and his KWP team isn't as forthright as everyone here wishes they were. But I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this topic.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by Bruno »

[Redacted by Moderator]
O, I beg of you your comprehensions,
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But Lèse-majesté, especially >Normans, natch.

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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by vasta41 »

Bruno wrote:[Redacted by Moderator]
Bruno- Marcus and I are having a discussion. You are attacking my character. KNOCK IT OFF!
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by Bruno »

[Redacted]
O, I beg of you your comprehensions,
yet laugh at your contempts ....
my only competition is with myselves.

But Lèse-majesté, especially >Normans, natch.

Is jarnstill the Ars of the Hors Nebulous ?
Neigh .... the Effluxor of the Omniverse ??
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by Marcus »

vasta41 wrote:
Marcus wrote:One can state the opinion that making display decks available to everyone feels unfair to Camelot edition backers without letting it devolve into claims about how it was done in a sketchy way or last minute when it clearly was not.
You are speculating as much as the rest of us. Was it literally done last minute? Of course not- it's an expression as I'm sure you know. Sketchy? That's a relative term. But let's stop splitting hairs. I don't feel as strongly as others on this thread and I'm not defending them nor agreeing with them. All I'm trying to say is until Jackson confirms or denies his motives with the display decks (I'll say it again) we can only speculate. The fact is Jackson and his KWP team isn't as forthright as everyone here wishes they were. But I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this topic.
I'm not really speculating at all there, though. No matter how figuratively one were to interpret the "last minute/second" part, there's no sensible way of it being true. The update was sent out on March 17th. That's on the twelfth day of the projects, with 18 days to go. It's several days closer to the launch date than to the end date, so in this case we'd then have to pretend that "last minute/second" doesn't even mean the second half of the campaign.

And opening up the display decks to all backers may be considered a good or a bad move toward certain backers - that's down to opinion of course. But it's not sketchy in any interpretation of the word when it's done completely in the open, letting everyone know it as publicly as possible in an update with plenty of time left to change or cancel their pledge if they so desire. None of that info was kept from backers, and everyone had a chance to act accordingly.

I'm not here to be JR's knight in shining armor. I'm merely asking that when we discuss things (in general, not just here) we should try our best to not let emotions skew facts too much as that will hinder more than help.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by Cardician_82 »

vasta41 wrote:
Bruno wrote:[Redacted.]
Bruno- Marcus and I are having a discussion. You are attacking my character. KNOCK IT OFF!

[Also redacted.]
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by JuFiN »

Marcus wrote:
vasta41 wrote:
Marcus wrote:One can state the opinion that making display decks available to everyone feels unfair to Camelot edition backers without letting it devolve into claims about how it was done in a sketchy way or last minute when it clearly was not.
You are speculating as much as the rest of us. Was it literally done last minute? Of course not- it's an expression as I'm sure you know. Sketchy? That's a relative term. But let's stop splitting hairs. I don't feel as strongly as others on this thread and I'm not defending them nor agreeing with them. All I'm trying to say is until Jackson confirms or denies his motives with the display decks (I'll say it again) we can only speculate. The fact is Jackson and his KWP team isn't as forthright as everyone here wishes they were. But I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this topic.
I'm not really speculating at all there, though. No matter how figuratively one were to interpret the "last minute/second" part, there's no sensible way of it being true. The update was sent out on March 17th. That's on the twelfth day of the projects, with 18 days to go. It's several days closer to the launch date than to the end date, so in this case we'd then have to pretend that "last minute/second" doesn't even mean the second half of the campaign.
.
I think the issue is that the availability of the display decks to all backers was only brought to the attention of this forum within hours of the campaign ending. I for one would have backed for an Excalibur and then added on a display deck had I known that was even an option in time. But as I hadn't backed the project, therefore not seeing the update, and no one posted about it here I missed my chance to do that. So from the prospective of many people on this forum it was very last minute.

It also was never really made clear in the body of the campaign itself so if someone missed that update it could be confusing. Regardless, announcing something as exclusive to a group to try and build that group or to increase the perceived value of the thing and then turning around and removing that exclusivity is something that rubs me the wrong way. Despite that fact that had I known about it earlier I would have probably taken advantage.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by rousselle »

Gentlemen, I am enjoying this discussion about the Arthurian project. Allow me, please, to contribute my own two cents.

Once I learned that display decks would only be available to backers of the Camelot deck, I contemplated the idea of backing the project when a Camelot deck became available. At the time, they were all taken; only the regular decks were available to be pledged for. I was not, at that time, a backer.

When I saw a Camelot deck become available, I backed the project for that tier. I checked the front page to confirm that nothing had changed about the Display deck, and there was no mention of it being available to all backers. This included in the list of updates that were on the project's home page.

What I did not do was go through the updates themselves.

And thus, even though the update did go out on March 17th that display decks were available to all, I wasn't backing at the time and so did not receive that update, and I didn't see any mention to that effect on the front page. That said, there was also no longer mention on the front page that display decks could only be purchased by Camelot backers, and I missed the fact that that was missing.

And so, here we are. I do not think that JR deliberately misled me. I accept full responsibility for missing this fine print. At the same time, I'm annoyed with myself for missing this detail, because I would have preferred to just have the display decks and not the fully tricked-out version. I am not going to ask for a refund, because, again, it's my own damn fault.

But... I can't help but feel a little sore, because it should have been a little more obvious. So... live and learn.

I agree with others who say the display deck idea should have been part of the project from the start, but JR does modify the project as he goes, and sometimes that works to our benefit, and sometimes, it doesn't. So it goes.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by Bruno »

Yay !
More rational.
Less emote.

Lets do that.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by Gareth »

rousselle wrote:Once I learned that display decks would only be available to backers of the Camelot deck, I contemplated the idea of backing the project when a Camelot deck became available. At the time, they were all taken; only the regular decks were available to be pledged for. I was not, at that time, a backer.
My experience was pretty much the same - except that I decided that Camelot was too expensive for me. (hmm... I must be learning :-))

Hence, not knowing that the Display decks were available to all, I - and I would suppose some others - did not back this campaign at all.

This is the problem from KWP/Jackson's viewpoint in their relatively limited promotion through the community; a smaller income stream.

[I guess I/we might be able to get a couple of decks in BackerKit, when that comes out]
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by sinjin7 »

Marcus wrote:If anyone feel upset about the display decks being available to everyone and not just the Camelot backers, by all means - everyone's entitled to their own opinion. But claiming it was done "last minute" or "last second" and calling it "sketchy" (actual quotes here, guys) is quite the stretch. JR sent out an update to everyone mentioning it both in the headline and the actual update, and it was done on March 17th - 18 whole days before the campaign ended. That's 25,920 last minutes, or 1,555,200 last seconds, and clearly communicated to everyone concerned.
I stand corrected about the timing of the availability of the display deck, but I dropped my pledge well before March 17 so I never got that update and was only going by what was posted here in this thread. Like Rousselle mentioned, there's really no mention about the availability of the display deck on his main KS page so there's no reasonable way for you to know unless you go through all the updates you never received.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by Marcus »

As I tend to always go through any existing updates for a project I pledge (perhaps a bit overzealous, but it lets me stay as updated as possible) the scenarios some of you mention did not cross my mind. They hold merit of course, and yes the campaign page could have been updated about it. It would've given new and potential backers a better headsup, and for JR it could've meant a higher pledge total. (See, communication is always good! ;) )

I can't speak for anyone else, but discussions of this kind gives me more value and a lot more reason to contribute. Thank you for giving it a bit more nuances.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by Bruno »

And sincere thanks for your nuancing Marcus.
Thank you.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by Justin O. »

My biggest issue isn't the way it was handled, but how I feel Jackson feels about it: Aloof and apathetic. He takes his 'can't please everyone' mentality to a place boarders on narcissism in a sense that I feel like he sees himself as infallible; and whenever he does make a mistake, rather than try to correct it he just goes 'Well that sucks, but whatever, c'est la vie' and when his supporters inevitably ask for him to seek alternative solutions his response is 'probably not, can't please everyone'. I know that is a bit of an extreme example, but Jackson doesn't make any effort to make his backers feel important
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian Decks !!

Unread post by Bruno »

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/17 ... ts/1960495

This beaut bit of work appears to be in transit to fulfillment.
Feeling slightly grasping about these ....
My preciousssss ....

etc.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by Räpylätassu »

I wasn't super crazy about this deck at first, but I have to say that I am warming to it, I am actually really starting to like it. I think that I'll try to get both of these when they hit the market.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by Bruno »

Normans love the whole King Myth concept ....
The Victorians so much so that it parodies itself.
Though the title 'Arthurian' is victorian era .... artos/urtos is a pagan concept denied/apropriated.
But I'm a sucker for the whole Mediaeval Illuminated Manuscript scenario, which is a not unrelated propaganda excercise again.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by chach »

Jack$on posted on instagram that he purchased an old press with plans to do his own tucks & decks even. While the possibilities are cool, I'll remain cautious. Once bitten twice shy and all that.

As for Arthurian, I'm still somewhat underwhelmed, but admittedly not as much as I was before I saw the pics.
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian -- Live on KS

Unread post by Räpylätassu »

I have been thinking this for a while now, but haven't bothered to post it yet. There might be a reference to The Witcher books in this deck, in the Queen of Spades to be precise, named the Lady of the Lake in the extra card.

The Lady of the Lake is the one that gives Arthur the sword Excalibur in the King Arthur stories. In the Witcher books, in the last book to be precise (named The Lady of the Lake) the other main character of the story Ciri teleports to an another world and lands on a pond, which causes the Elves watching this call her The Lady of the Lake. Also the book begins and ends with Ciri telling about the events of the book to a young knight in the world of King Arthur (Ciri is able to travel between the worlds) who mistakes her for the Lady of the Lake as she is bathing in a lake, which annoys Ciri, as she is not exactly pleased to remember her time with the Elves who called her with the same name. Anyways, the Queen of Spades looks very similar to how Ciri is portrayed in the The Witcher 3: The Wild Hunt, with the white hair and the white shirt

Image

The Queen of Spades in the Arthurian deck.

Image

Ciri in the video game The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
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Re: Kings Wild Project, Arthurian

Unread post by Decknowledgy »

Sorry for bumping this thread folks, but I was confused when seeing this link:
http://www.marytcusack.com/maryc/decks/ ... melot.html

It shows that the Camelot has this back:
screenshot-www.marytcusack.com-2019.03.07-15-48-25 (Small).png
screenshot-www.marytcusack.com-2019.03.07-15-48-25 (Small).png (808 KiB) Viewed 2130 times
But this is the back on the Kickstarter page:
Image

Can anyone confirm which one is the true back of the Camelot? Thanks a lot
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