SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread postby EndersGame » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:31 am  

sinjin7 wrote:Gio stated he would use either the USPCC or EPCC during his campaign. Sins ended on March 19, 2017. Three days later on March 22, Gio informed us he would print with EPCC. We didn't find out about him printing in China until June 16 - that's three months after his campaign ended. But at least Gio was crystal clear about printing in China, and he gave us a detailed explanation into the reasoning for switching to printing in China.


Got a link where we can read this, for the benefit of those who haven't been following this closely?

For those decks printed in China, is the name of the printer known, or is that all hush hush?
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread postby RichK » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:23 am  

EndersGame wrote:
sinjin7 wrote:Gio stated he would use either the USPCC or EPCC during his campaign. Sins ended on March 19, 2017. Three days later on March 22, Gio informed us he would print with EPCC. We didn't find out about him printing in China until June 16 - that's three months after his campaign ended. But at least Gio was crystal clear about printing in China, and he gave us a detailed explanation into the reasoning for switching to printing in China.


Got a link where we can read this, for the benefit of those who haven't been following this closely?

For those decks printed in China, is the name of the printer known, or is that all hush hush?


It was at the bottom of the project page.

I have chosen two possible companies for print SINS. One is Expert Playing Card Co, the producer of all my previous decks. The other is The United States Playing Card Company. Both are awesome companies who'll guarantee the best quality possible for SINS.

I will make my decision when the campaign will ends. There are some variables that may influence my choice, however I will guarantee that I will pick one of those two. Other companies are not an option for SINS.
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread postby Thirdway Industries » Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:32 am  

@Sinjin - I never said "Printed in Taiwan", I just said EPCC - and that was and it’s true. It was useless specify this in March since there wasn’t physical proofs about Chinese Factory decks, so no one, me included, would have the chance to evaluate the difference.

SINS boxes will have, of course, “China” below them - the truth :-)

About Legal Tender - I don’t wish talk about other people projects, there is a long thread elsewhere for that. But I can say there are deep differences between mine and Jackson’s projects. I think, despite the same finish, the cards feel different. Boxes are made in different places. And I see that many negative comments are related to missing features/delays of the deck, not only about the finish. On this point, I can confirm that SINS decks will have all the promised features, plus an important one: the High Res foil. This is a true upgrade (it costs more) and it’s a big difference to low res. Fyi, High Res foil is possible only in Chinese factory at the moment.

Finish is, in fact, very important to me - but it’s not the only important point of a quality deck. Registration, printing, metallic inks and an awesome box are important points for me as well, and when I picked China over Taiwan, my intention was improve those points (and I think I nailed it). I can’t guarantee you will like SINS finish, but I can guarantee at least we’re doing our best on that, using the same materials of Taiwan.

About the consistence, I’ll ask EPCC - thanks for point this out, it may be useful. I hope that, if there was this problem on Legal Tender, they managed to fix it.

Also I don’t agree with you about the youtubers opinions are not worthwhile on finish - for me, all opinions are important - yours included.

Of course I need to defend my choice to print in China - otherwise I would have printed somewhere else ;-)

Anyway - consider that I’m trying (as other creators, I suppose) to make great products - I am not a big company and I am of course very worried about that any problem can occur to my projects (don’t think I took this choice easily - I talked with EPCC for days about this before decide and I was not sure until the very end - they probably hate me now) - on the other side, for innovate sometimes we need to take choices and risks. I hope this choice will be, in the end, a good one and everyone will be happy.

I see you’re very interested about this topic, so I assume you’re a big SINS Backer - for this, thank you in advance and I hope that you’ll be happy with the final product - at least for the rest, if you won’t like the finish :)

@Montenzi - Thank you for the kind feedback :-)
I love USPCC too - in fact I am making Eva with them (with boxes made by Clove St) and so far I am very happy. I think USPCC and EPCC are different, but both great. I will continue working with both for my next projects!

@Endersgame - all on my project page, with open updates > https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/th ... ying-cards

@RichK - Thank you :)
Thirdway Industries shop > https://www.thirdwayindustries.com/.
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread postby jerichoholic » Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:19 pm  

Sunnish which deck was it you said was actually printed in China and got good reviews? No reason to keep it a secret.

The comment about the Youtube reviewers is accurate, most of us are not cardists but I think we can still tell if a deck spreads or fans good or not. Some of the made in China decks, like the recent Hong Kong, the Do You Want To Change Your Mind deck, and also Legal Tender have not been the best quality among others.

I also disagree about the comment about USPC not producing good tucks, that obviously isn't true, even if they do outsource some of that, they are still USPC produced. I find it odd that creators like Gio are using the Chinese factory to print tucks and the Taiwan factory to print decks and yet the Chinese factory apparently can't consistently make good quality cards.
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread postby EndersGame » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:33 am  

EndersGame wrote:
sinjin7 wrote:Gio stated he would use either the USPCC or EPCC during his campaign. Sins ended on March 19, 2017. Three days later on March 22, Gio informed us he would print with EPCC. We didn't find out about him printing in China until June 16 - that's three months after his campaign ended. But at least Gio was crystal clear about printing in China, and he gave us a detailed explanation into the reasoning for switching to printing in China.

Got a link where we can read this, for the benefit of those who haven't been following this closely?

For those decks printed in China, is the name of the printer known, or is that all hush hush?

Thirdway Industries wrote:@Endersgame - all on my project page, with open updates > https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/th ... ying-cards

Which Updates should I be reading? - there's 17 of them :)

For the record, the bottom of the project page does say this, which seems quite transparent about Giovanni's intentions:
"I have chosen two possible companies for print SINS. One is Expert Playing Card Co, the producer of all my previous decks. The other is The United States Playing Card Company. Both are awesome companies who'll guarantee the best quality possible for SINS. I will make my decision when the campaign will ends. There are some variables that may influence my choice, however I will guarantee that I will pick one of those two. Other companies are not an option for SINS."
EPCC/LPCC normally prints in Taiwan, but some of the EPCC/LPCC decks (e.g. LPCC's Emerald finish) are printed in China, if I'm not mistaken.
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread postby sinjin7 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:25 am  

EndersGame wrote:Which Updates should I be reading? - there's 17 of them :)

All of them, that's the only way to get an accurate timeline.

Thirdway Industries wrote:@Sinjin - I never said "Printed in Taiwan", I just said EPCC

EndersGame wrote:EPCC/LPCC normally prints in Taiwan, but some of the EPCC/LPCC decks (e.g. LPCC's Emerald finish) are printed in China, if I'm not mistaken.

Both of you are correct, but I suspect that most, if not all, backers were under the impression Sins were going to be printed by either the USPCC or the Taiwanese EPCC printer. By the way, I'm not faulting Gio on this, he told us he would choose the printer later. And once he chose the Chinese printer, he was very clear about that fact and wasn't misleading anyone, and he gave all his reasons for going with China, as is his right to do so as the deck designer and producer.

Thirdway Industries wrote:About Legal Tender - I don’t wish talk about other people projects, there is a long thread elsewhere for that. But I can say there are deep differences between mine and Jackson’s projects. I think, despite the same finish, the cards feel different.

And here is the potential conundrum with EPCC China - despite the same finish, the cards feel different. Why is that? Shouldn't it feel the same? Shouldn't there be some consistency you can bank on when it comes to EPCC's finish? Let's even forget about whether Legal Tenders with the same finish as Sins should feel like Sins, shouldn't Legal Tenders feel like other Legal Tenders? What we are seeing instead is some Legal Tender decks fanning like crap, and apparently there are other Legal Tender decks that fan adequately within the tolerances that we've seen from past EPCC decks. Hopefully Legal Tenders is an isolated print run from EPCC China and that future decks printed at EPCC China, like Sins, will have better consistency and feel the same.
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread postby EndersGame » Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:11 am  

What's the official name that EPCC is giving for the finish they are using at the Chinese factory for SINS, Legal Tender, Robber Titans, and other decks produced there?

Over in this thread, it is reported that EPCC is using two new finishes, called JN Finish (similar to Master finish, but feels different), and Stud Finish, which they describe as follows:

JN Finish:
The new JN Finish. This represents our constant efforts to duplicate the venerable Jerry's Nugget Casino cards from the '70s. Probably we, nor maybe anyone else, can get closer. These are very similar to the Master Finish cards that are so popular but these are crushed .01mm thinner and you can feel it.

Stud Finish:
Our new Stud Finish. Very soft and pliable. We think they are the softest high quality cards on the market today.


Is it one of these that will be used to produce SINS, or something different?
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread postby Thirdway Industries » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:38 am  

@Sinjin - My opinion (that might be completely wrong) is that the Legal Tender CYMK colors, combined with JN finish, have a different effect than Pantone + JN Finish I used on SINS.
CYMK are 4 layers of colors - and Legal Tender is very colorful, Pantone is just one layer per color . I have the impression that the SINS proofs I have feel a little more "natural" - but it might be just an impression :)

@EndersGame - SINS uses JN finish :)
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread postby RichK » Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:52 pm  

Can we give Gio the benefit of doubt before we say SINS won't fan, faro, etc. until we get them in our hands please. He was up front in saying EPCC vs. USPCC and if China has better registration and better metallic foil I'll be happy with that. I'm no cardist and can't fan a deck for crap anyway so I don't know how my Legal Tender handle.

Everyone has made valid points. And we all want the best SINS deck. Let's wait and see what the final outcome is then we can praise or bash Gio.

Thanks. :)
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread postby Bruno » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:04 pm  

Now come on Rich, if I want to rail against steady, incremental improvement, then speak against the better interest, and advocate for gradual degradation and steady decline, upholding entitlement and the status quo, then there is not much nowadays you can do to stop me and make me think of the alternatives. In fact, if I just keep rabbiting on and throwing distraction about, eventually your eyes will droop, you are getting sleepy, you wish to have a nap but you cannot, you must put out the trash, you must get ready for the next deadline, you must not remember what the heck was the point I was going to make again ................

Edit.
That should be steady degradation and gradual decline, but nevermind, you'll love them, don't you worry about that, they're awesome ....
Look over there, wow, shiny !
O, I beg of you your comprehensions,
yet laugh at your contempts ....
my only competition is with myselves.

But Lèse-majesté, especially >Normans, natch.

Is jarnstill the Ars of the Hors Nebulous ?
Neigh .... the Effluxor of the Omniverse ??
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread postby Thirdway Industries » Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:45 am  

Hello guys!

SINS will arrive to GW the 6 of september - this means that shipping to backers will happens in mid/late sept.

I've recieved 3 SINS decks in Italy and I'm publishing some pics - take a look to the full update > https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/th ... ts/1953986

Sorry for the delay, I'm really doing my best to minimize it.

Thank you very much!

Gio
Thirdway Industries shop > https://www.thirdwayindustries.com/.
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread postby Thirdway Industries » Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:55 am  

Huge Halloween Sale on Thirdway Industries Website! Eva & SINS finally available!
https://www.thirdwayindustries.com/prod ... order=desc

halloween_mail.png
halloween_mail.png (343.51 KiB) Viewed 79 times


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