SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread postby hawk199 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:53 pm  

Thirdway Industries wrote:Hehe I was kidding about the name - but I considered to change my logo with a tiny snake. However, for now I'll keep the "Stamp logo".


Snakes would be nice touch, if it's visible / doable :o maybe on the extra/ gaff card?

Edit didn't fully read the post
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread postby ecNate » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:12 pm  

Heads Up!!! '' EB now available - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/thirdwayind/sins-playing-cards

*EARLY BIRD* SINS LIMITED TRIDENT

One (1) SINS Corpus
One (1) SINS Mentis
One (1) SINS Anima Limited Edition FREE
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread postby Thirdway Industries » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:09 pm  

ecNate wrote:Heads Up!!! '' EB now available - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/thirdwayind/sins-playing-cards

*EARLY BIRD* SINS LIMITED TRIDENT

One (1) SINS Corpus
One (1) SINS Mentis
One (1) SINS Anima Limited Edition FREE


Already gone ;)

@Hawk - Yes it will be an extra snake-joker :D
Thirdway Industries shop > https://www.thirdwayindustries.com/.
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread postby Thirdway Industries » Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:54 pm  

If you love coins, check the latest update ;)

> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/th ... ts/1814186
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread postby flashcards » Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:02 pm  

I'm going to be dropping my Sins Limited Trident pledge. If anyone would like it, contact me by PM and we can arrange a time for the transfer. Thanks.
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread postby Mischievous » Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:10 am  

Good project.
Excellent decks.
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread postby Thirdway Industries » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:42 pm  

@Mischievous - Thank you! And sorry for my uber-late reply :roll:

For all carat Card Cases lovers, like me, I released a new cool item :

carat_snake5_mini.gif


I also unlocked the inner foil on all decks >> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/th ... ts/1828889

Few days left and, as always, no Backerkit and no predorders on all limited stuff :-)

Thank you for the huge support, I know that there are a lot of backers from UC!
Thirdway Industries shop > https://www.thirdwayindustries.com/.
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread postby Thirdway Industries » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:45 pm  

Thanks to all UC SINS backers :-)

SINS is my best project so far, I'm very happy and grateful for all the support! I know many backers are from UC.

I just published some deals on www.thirdwayindustries.com for celebrate - and if you missed the project, SINS Mentis & SINS Corpus are available for preorder.
Thirdway Industries shop > https://www.thirdwayindustries.com/.
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread postby EndersGame » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:22 am  

Congratulations on an outstanding series of decks, Giovanni, and a terrific result with this Kickstarter.

I think the symbolism and creative thought that has gone into this design is superb - see my pictorial review here.

Well done sir!
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread postby Thirdway Industries » Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:25 pm  

Guys a little news (probably you saw the update) - We'll use high resolution foil for SINS - I saw some pictures and are amazing. It means the foil on these should be accurate almost like ink. It's a new EPCC feature, they suggested me to do that since SINS tucks are very intricate - I waited to reveal this earlier since I wanted to be sure we can made it happens. So far I am very happy, and I should have much more pictures during the next week.

d9391723f09bd170f412b30ff131e03c_original.jpg
d9391723f09bd170f412b30ff131e03c_original.jpg (107.69 KiB) Viewed 492 times


Don't mind the foil registration, it's an issue we'll fix in the real product.

I'm also producing Lost Eden Cases (a little surprise there will be revealed in the next days, probably) and coins (that are produced but stuck in the IT custom. Probably they was scared by black coins with sinful ladies on the front :evil: )
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread postby Thirdway Industries » Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:35 am  

Hello guys - if you read the last update you should have noticed that SINS will be printed in the Chinese factory of EPCC, with JN Finish (Skull&Bones).
The long version is in the update, with pictures and videos > https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/th ... ts/1906739.

I decided to use Chinese Factory when SINS project ended - it was much easy for me keep the production all in China instead do Chinese Boxes / Taiwanese Cards like I did for Dedalo and Pantheon.
Also EPCC promised that the quality would be the same of Taiwan, or better (especially on metallic inks). They always did an awesome job with my boxes (check Dedalo/Pantheon if you have them) and I think they did their best with SINS boxes.

I saw many comments about the Chinese factory cards, and I waited to say my version only with physical proofs in my hands. So, here is my 2 cents:

- Printing is over the top - perfect registration, awesome colors/definition, and, as promised, better metallic inks - those ones will shine for real! This is a professional opinion of an experienced Art Director.

- About the handling, I am not an expert here. I can say that EPCC used the same paper (european) of Taiwan Master Finish and the same materials. The effect, anyway, is a bit different, since Master was a little more "oily" than JN - don't think if it's better or worse, probably it's subjective - I don't think the cards feel bad or cheap at all.
EPCC also sent me some other Chinese factory decks with SINS. They all use the same finish, but in my humble opinion, they feel a little different than SINS physical proofs.

EPCC is very proud about the finish, they said there are many magicans (especially one, very famous) who gave them an excellent feedback.

So far I am very happy with the product, and I did my best to share it with you with videos and pictures. Feel free to ask me anything if you have questions, I'll do my best to give you answers.

A thing I don't like of the new factory is that the process is slower than I expected, and we're a bit late - I expected a faster delivery than China+Taiwan. I hope they can improve on this point, I hate being late!
The new ETA for SINS is late August (I am going to approve the next week, then they need 3 weeks to finalize the decks, a month to ship them in USA and finally we can start shipping to backers).
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread postby RichK » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:57 am  

Gio,

I know the video doesn't do justice to the real thing but in the video the entire card looked all shiny, hiding the metallic ink shine. Is that just a video flaw and the metallic ink does shine? Thanks.
Move on, nothing to see here.
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread postby jerichoholic » Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:23 pm  

I hope the quality will be much better than Legal Tender but sadly the Chinese factory has yet to produce a deck with good quality.
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread postby guru » Sat Jun 17, 2017 12:43 pm  

jerichoholic wrote:I hope the quality will be much better than Legal Tender but sadly the Chinese factory has yet to produce a deck with good quality.


Let me tell a secret...I know people r hell bent on Jackson for Legal Tender but he was upfront about getting decks printed from Chinese factory, and similarly, Gio has also updated here about Sins being done by same factory.In the same vein, Jody Eklund's new deck like TITANS Robber Baron is done at Chinese factory and he mentioned it on the campaign page from the start.

That being said, there is a popular deck which says Made in Taiwan but, it was printed in China. The creator never came onboard in any forum whatsoever, and everyone is always going to be under the impression that the deck was done in Taiwan and not somewhere else. Fact of the matter is that I've seen reviewers liking the finish n handling of this deck ;)
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread postby Thirdway Industries » Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:51 pm  

@Rich - Yes, my video isn't good - probably too much light. The metallic inks are very shiny (similar to Theory11 decks) - the cards themselves are normal, they shine a lot because they're put in plain light.

@Victor - I think there is diffidence about Chinese factory, so I think that some opinions I read are influenced by that.
I tried to give objective facts and not opinions: The chinese factory is very good at printing, I can tell this for sure and I have an objective evidence - take a look to my pics, registration is perfect and also are the colors (my pics aren't good, but I hope they can give a good idea). From this point of view I think we're talking about "top quality", probably better than Taiwan, considering metallic inks.

About the materials, the paper is exactly the same of Taiwan (from Europe fyi) so the only differences are in other part of the process (maybe coating, I have no idea).
Said this, it's also objective that the chinese JN finish is different than Taiwanese one. I can't say if it's better or worst - maybe it's just different.

I also think that the proofs I have feel different than Legal Tender (I have it as well) and slightly different to Skull&Bones, despite they use the same finish. It may be due that I use Pantone colors instead CYMK (again, I'm guessing, I have no idea), or maybe the Chinese factory is changing some part of the process after print some decks. They are relatively new, but on the other side, consider that EPCC is working closely with them to have the best quality possible.

Said this, I hope you'll like SINS when it will be made :) We're doing our best to made a great job, really.

@guru - Oh I would like know what deck it is :)
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread postby guru » Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:34 am  

@Gio - You're right about diffidence. It is always difficult to change perception, and so I believe the confidence in Chinese factory will evolve gradually.

The pictures in your latest update looks good, and I hope and wish the final product amazes everyone here. Good luck!!!
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread postby sinjin7 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:08 am  

guru wrote:Let me tell a secret...I know people r hell bent on Jackson for Legal Tender but he was upfront about getting decks printed from Chinese factory, and similarly, Gio has also updated here about Sins being done by same factory.In the same vein, Jody Eklund's new deck like TITANS Robber Baron is done at Chinese factory and he mentioned it on the campaign page from the start.

That being said, there is a popular deck which says Made in Taiwan but, it was printed in China. The creator never came onboard in any forum whatsoever, and everyone is always going to be under the impression that the deck was done in Taiwan and not somewhere else. Fact of the matter is that I've seen reviewers liking the finish n handling of this deck ;)

I don't know what your basis is for making these comments. You just said Jackson was up front about Legal Tender being printed in China? Are you serious? He made no mention of printing in China on his campaign page. His campaign ended back in August 3, 2016. He never made any reference to these being printed in China until February 2, 2017 - that's six months AFTER his campaign ended!!! And even that reference to China printing was ambiguous. And while the Legal Tenders were most definitely printed in China, his tuck boxes state they were printed in Taipei, not China or PRC! Throughout this whole campaign, Jackson hasn't been up front about almost anything: not the foiling, not the delivery date, and most definitely not about the printer in China.

Gio stated he would use either the USPCC or EPCC during his campaign. Sins ended on March 19, 2017. Three days later on March 22, Gio informed us he would print with EPCC. We didn't find out about him printing in China until June 16 - that's three months after his campaign ended. But at least Gio was crystal clear about printing in China, and he gave us a detailed explanation into the reasoning for switching to printing in China. Whether this works out for him still remains to be seen - more on that below.

Jody did, in fact, notify us he was printing in China right from the beginning of his campaign, but that was near the very bottom of his campaign page in the Shipping section, not in the Deck Features section in the heart of his campaign page. Nonetheless, I'll give Jody credit for his disclosure right from the start instead of months after he's already received our money after the campaign ended.

With all due respect to all the YouTube reviewers out there, and there are some excellent ones, none of them are serious cardists, so I'll take their opinions about finish and handling with a pinch of salt. Just because a reviewer opined that a Chinese printed deck inside a tuck that's mislabeled as printed in Taiwan handled just fine for them isn't conclusive of too much for me. I'll trust what my hands tell me more so than any non-cardist reviewer out there.

Thirdway Industries wrote:Hello guys - if you read the last update you should have noticed that SINS will be printed in the Chinese factory of EPCC, with JN Finish (Skull&Bones).

EPCC is very proud about the finish, they said there are many magicans (especially one, very famous) who gave them an excellent feedback.

I think its a red flag that most of the feedback from Jackson's Chinese printed Legal Tenders have been negative to varying degrees (in terms of finish and overall quality, not the art). Even the relatively few positive comments have still conceded that its not as good as other EPCC decks. As I have stated before, China has been able to print a decent deck (and please note, I say decent, not excellent). The Legends series are decent. But after this whole Legal Tender fiasco, I question the consistency and quality control of the Chinese printers. I know for first hand fact that there are some who have received poor quality finished decks bordering on unacceptable, and from second hand knowledge based upon comments on Jackson's own Comments Section on his KS campaign and from posts here at UC that many others have also received decks poorly finished to varying degrees. Yet based on a very few posts here at UC and on the Legal Tender comments section, and from direct communication from Jackson himself, there appears to be a number of good quality decks that fall within the range of other Taiwanese printed EPCC decks. What that tells me is that Chinese printed decks aren't consistent and uniform in quality, so it may be hit or miss whether we get a good deck or a bad one.

For Gio's sake, I hope his Sins decks come out with consistent quality from the Chinese printer so that everyone gets a good deck, otherwise it'll get ugly for him like it did for Jackson. And please, make sure the tuck boxes state the cards are printed in China, not Taiwan. You don't want to mislead anyone with such false advertising, and you definitely don't want to run afoul of laws governing the merchantabilty of goods sold in the United States.

I know that Bill Kalush/EPCC/LPCC has been in contact with David Blaine about producing a deck for him. But what a magician requires of their decks are very different from what cardists require in terms of the physical qualities in a deck. And its worth noting that, as of now, the only decks Blaine has chosen to bear his name has been printed by the USPCC. Of course EPCC is going to say their proud of their finish. They're so proud of their finish that they're constantly re-working and changing it year after year. :roll: EPCC/LPCC was supposed to be cheaper, faster, and better quality than the USPCC. Oops. Its now come to the point where I don't know if I can trust the quality of a deck from EPCC/LPCC, or even whether its printed in Taiwan or China.
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread postby montenzi » Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:48 am  

I backed SINS and I don't really care where this deck will be printed ;) Love the artwork and details on the tuck. The story is simple - USPCC is unable to produce good tuck boxes so when you buy an expensive deck with foiling and embossing applied on top of a plain and cheap peace of paper ... well. I have one from the latest releases and it will be the last deck from USPCC with "options". Plain decks? No problems, I'll buy. And I don't think cardistry uses such smart art decks :ugking: Most of them are kids. They need something plain, simple and overprices :ugdance:
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread postby sinjin7 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:58 am  

montenzi wrote:I backed SINS and I don't really care where this deck will be printed ;) Love the artwork and details on the tuck. The story is simple - USPCC is unable to produce good tuck boxes so when you buy an expensive deck with foiling and embossing applied on top of a plain and cheap peace of paper ... well. I have one from the latest releases and it will be the last deck from USPCC with "options". Plain decks? No problems, I'll buy. And I don't think cardistry uses such smart art decks :ugking: Most of them are kids. They need something plain, simple and overprices :ugdance:

I think its very interesting that the most ardent supporters of China-printed decks are. . .people who print decks in China themselves. Not exactly the most impartial opinions. :roll:

And to say the USPCC is unable to produce good tuck boxes is somewhat ignorant. Jackson's Fed52 tucks are fantastic. T11 makes some of the most exquisite tuck boxes in the industry, and everyone of their decks are USPCC produced. These are just a few examples, but sufficient.

As to your final comments about cardists, it's downright ignorant and speaks for itself about your state of mind, no further comment is needed.
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Re: SINS - Thirdway Industries Now live on KS

Unread postby montenzi » Sun Jun 18, 2017 4:52 am  

sinjin7 wrote:And to say the USPCC is unable to produce good tuck boxes is somewhat ignorant. Jackson's Fed52 tucks are fantastic. T11 makes some of the most exquisite tuck boxes in the industry, and everyone of their decks are USPCC produced. These are just a few examples, but sufficient.


Sinjin7, http://www.studioonfire.com. - they produce all tuck boxes for T11. Same for Artofplay - they outsource some here http://www.clovestpress.com.
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