Dondorf Hundertjahrkarte restoration, uncut sheets available

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Re: Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration - April on KS

Unread post by TGunitedcardists »

dcmcalirep wrote:I put "restoration" in the search box and they popped up.
Thanks. That did it!

1x Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration for $105.00 each
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Re: Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration - April on KS

Unread post by pablo »

Me too, how come they are being pre-sold so suddenly?

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Re: Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration - April on KS

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

Thank you to those who already backed this project! You will be receiving Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration sets with numbers in the low "teens", and I am humbled by your faith in this endeavor.

I knew this would come up, so let me explain how we arrived at the price: we have to have $100 per set to even break even, and the fact is that I want to keep a little bit in the tank to help jump start future restoration projects. Using PayPal, Shopify payments (and Stripe on KS) we get about 90-95% of the actual amount pledged. For Shopify & PayPal outside KS it amounts to $101.65 after they take their discount for domestic / US backers and only $100.08 if you are overseas. Once we get to Kickstarter, out of $130 we get about $117. That alone was reason enough to push the price up $13. Now, KS isn't exactly that, I am sure someone will point out, but if you only get the main deck there we get $99 for US backers and about $98 overseas. I am not making a bunch of money here.

We have not nailed down anything specific, but I am looking at decks like the original Orient Express and "Four Seasons" - both of which have the old style 3/4 perspective courts. Two distinct avenues exist, one with other beautiful Dondorf decks made for the Danish market in the early 1900's like the Saks & Co deck, Le Hombre, Luxeskarte, etc. The other I already mentioned, and would involve trying to get licenses from other companies. I would love to hear suggestions, but realize that some of them might be impossible to get the rights to do.

Working on the last few remaining details, I figured out a possible way for both decks to be gilded, although the Player's deck would be the "flash" method where they heat copper-aluminum foil and instantly blast it onto the edges of the decks. It might even end up with a slightly different gilded look, but anyone who has seen a Congress #606 deck made since the 1930's knows that they look to be gilded with real gold. I can't promise that yet, but I do see a potential way to get there. That second deck would still be a "whole other animal" when compared to the restoration. We're looking at 330gsm German made casino quality black core paper bond/stock, and likely both decks will use similar paper.

I will detail more as the Kickstarter campaign launch gets closer.
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Re: Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration - April on KS

Unread post by TGunitedcardists »

Mike Ratledge wrote:Thank you to those who already backed this project! You will be receiving Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration sets with numbers in the low "teens", and I am humbled by your faith in this endeavor.

I knew this would come up, so let me explain how we arrived at the price: we have to have $100 per set to even break even, and the fact is that I want to keep a little bit in the tank to help jump start future restoration projects. Using PayPal, Shopify payments (and Stripe on KS) we get about 90-95% of the actual amount pledged. For Shopify & PayPal outside KS it amounts to $101.65 after they take their discount for domestic / US backers and only $100.08 if you are overseas. Once we get to Kickstarter, out of $130 we get about $117. That alone was reason enough to push the price up $13. Now, KS isn't exactly that, I am sure someone will point out, but if you only get the main deck there we get $99 for US backers and about $98 overseas. I am not making a bunch of money here.

We have not nailed down anything specific, but I am looking at decks like the original Orient Express and "Four Seasons" - both of which have the old style 3/4 perspective courts. Two distinct avenues exist, one with other beautiful Dondorf decks made for the Danish market in the early 1900's like the Saks & Co deck, Le Hombre, Luxeskarte, etc. The other I already mentioned, and would involve trying to get licenses from other companies. I would love to hear suggestions, but realize that some of them might be impossible to get the rights to do.
It's my hope there could be some really, really plain & cheap display decks along with the Cadillac version. Perhaps the 250 print run is a tad too small.

What I don't understand is the license fees. Aren't really old decks out of copyright?
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Re: Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration - April on KS

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

TGunitedcardists wrote:It's my hope there could be some really, really plain & cheap display decks along with the Cadillac version. Perhaps the 250 print run is a tad too small.

What I don't understand is the license fees. Aren't really old decks out of copyright?
You know that I had hoped to be able to do them less expensively and sell them outside of the main project without the fancy restoration deck, let's say for around $10 anyway.

I had to agree to baby steps this time. No matter what I claim or show the marketing people for - in this case Cartamundi - they want to see me walk the walk and not just talk the talk.

We absolutely WILL do exactly that, and hopefully we can get less restricted terms in the future, but for now originally I only got permission to do 250 decks total, and only by showing my cards I was able to convince them to let me add 250 Player's decks.

That number of decks just isn't enough to get the price down to a reasonable amount. I expect that the Player's decks will cost $8 without gilding. That's not a lot of leeway when I only have 250 to work with. It also doesn't include anything else, licensing or other fees, which I am trying to bury in the main 250 decks.

We'll see, moving forward, but the absolute best thing that can happen for the future success of this outstanding first attempt is for it to sell out and have people wanting more - way more. That's why I am so picky about how it is done, and hopefully it will get us to that next level. I can't possibly predict exactly where this will go, but my hopes are that I can do more in the near future. If it's truly successful I hope to be able to make at least 500 of future restoration decks. I have to be careful, if they become commodities instead of true novelties, they could end up being unworthy or unwanted. Maybe we can get to 1000? That's the upper limit in my mind, at least for the true restoration decks.
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Re: Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration - April on KS

Unread post by TGunitedcardists »

Mike Ratledge wrote: You know that I had hoped to be able to do them less expensively and sell them outside of the main project without the fancy restoration deck, let's say for around $10 anyway.

I had to agree to baby steps this time. No matter what I claim or show the marketing people for - in this case Cartamundi - they want to see me walk the walk and not just talk the talk.

We absolutely WILL do exactly that, and hopefully we can get less restricted terms in the future, but for now originally I only got permission to do 250 decks total, and only by showing my cards I was able to convince them to let me add 250 Player's decks.

That number of decks just isn't enough to get the price down to a reasonable amount. I expect that the Player's decks will cost $8 without gilding. That's not a lot of leeway when I only have 250 to work with. It also doesn't include anything else, licensing or other fees, which I am trying to bury in the main 250 decks.

We'll see, moving forward, but the absolute best thing that can happen for the future success of this outstanding first attempt is for it to sell out and have people wanting more - way more. That's why I am so picky about how it is done, and hopefully it will get us to that next level. I can't possibly predict exactly where this will go, but my hopes are that I can do more in the near future. If it's truly successful I hope to be able to make at least 500 of future restoration decks. I have to be careful, if they become commodities instead of true novelties, they could end up being unworthy or unwanted. Maybe we can get to 1000? That's the upper limit in my mind, at least for the true restoration decks.
This is excellent news and information. I love old decks. The cheaper prices for the non-fancy versions are most welcome. Good news on the horizon. Thanks for taking the time to explain the process.

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Re: Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration - April on KS

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

dcmcalirep wrote:I put "restoration" in the search box and they popped up.
"Dondorf" works, also.

I want to keep this for UC members, so I didn't link it to the Decks for Sale group - yet:

https://ucdecksales.com/products/dondor ... estoration

It must be not too hard to find, because the "teens" are taken, except for one, I think.
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Re: Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration - April on KS

Unread post by Great Lakes Cards »

Best of luck with this project. I love the attention to detail and restoration over profit. I understand that bills have to get paid but I love the idea of taking these older/historic decks and exposing them to a wider/new audience. Part of the fun of playing cards for me is seeing the role they play in telling the history of where they are from - both geographically and timeline. I'm not sure my budget will allow snagging one of these but I'm fully on board in spirit.
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Re: Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration - April on KS

Unread post by RichK »

Got one. Thanks Mike!
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Re: Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration - April on KS

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

Great Lakes Cards wrote:Best of luck with this project. I love the attention to detail and restoration over profit. I understand that bills have to get paid but I love the idea of taking these older/historic decks and exposing them to a wider/new audience. Part of the fun of playing cards for me is seeing the role they play in telling the history of where they are from - both geographically and timeline. I'm not sure my budget will allow snagging one of these but I'm fully on board in spirit.
If ever there was a deck with a story, this is it. I detailed it partially in the first couple of posts. I am looking for the booklet (likely only in German?) that came with these or maybe with the German reprint. I want to complete the picture, and include it with the restoration set. I have found most of the small things included in the OG set, but I don't have that.
>Mike<
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself"
They say "Ignorance is bliss". Obviously, some people are much happier than others...

Members are encouraged to
Show Us Your Cards!


Our UC2021 Decks entitled
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Re: Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration - April on KS

Unread post by pablo »

Mike Ratledge wrote:
Great Lakes Cards wrote:Best of luck with this project. I love the attention to detail and restoration over profit. I understand that bills have to get paid but I love the idea of taking these older/historic decks and exposing them to a wider/new audience. Part of the fun of playing cards for me is seeing the role they play in telling the history of where they are from - both geographically and timeline. I'm not sure my budget will allow snagging one of these but I'm fully on board in spirit.
If ever there was a sec with a story, this is it. I detailed it partially in the first couple of posts. I am looking for the booklet (likely only in German?) that came with these or maybe with the German reprint. I want to complete the picture, and include it with the restoration set. I have found most of the small things included in the OG set, but I don't have that.
I'm getting the German reprint soon, so I'll let you know. I'll also look into it on the web.

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Re: Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration - April 22 on

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

I won't repeat it because it is in my signature block, but Kickstarter launch has been determined. Almost 25% of the UC member pre-sale are already sold within less than 24 hours of me unlocking the inventory of 85 (serial numbers 11-95) sets that are available to you for $25 less than the Kickstarter campaign price. Both decks, full restoration and "Player's Deck", worldwide shipping included.
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Re: Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration - April 22 on

Unread post by pablo »

Nice to see this project on track. I just recieved a German replica of the decks, unfortunately without a booklet. The cards are very nice and handle well, thy even have metallic gold ink on the borders, courts and backs (which are good looking as well, even if they aren't the originals).Image

Each deck, red and blue, came with three identical jokers.

Apparently B.Dondorf did a lot of decks using chromolithography, but this was their most luxurious. They also printed banknotes, business cards, luxury papers, etc. They started printing playing cards in 1840. 1872 Bernhard Dondorf passed on the business to the next generation. During the first World War and the hyperinflation period the German card industry boomed. It suffered severly in the following years and 1929 the Grandson of B. Dondorf was forced to sell the company. The 100 year Dondorf palying cards mark the pinnacle of chromolithography playig cards as these started to be substituted by offsetprinting.

I've seen on a site that the deck came with one card explaining the rules of a game (it was a scanned picture but the card was unreadable), does anybody own an original to confirm this?
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Re: Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration - April 22 on

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

One of the few concessions that I made is to print two slightly different Jokers, since certain contemporary games require they are distinct. It won't be much, maybe a little red on one that's easily noticed. The card you are talking about is likely the other concession (not in the restoration), a card with the point scores for bridge in German. I have one, let me see if I have a pix. (didn't find on my phone, likely to be on the laptop)
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Re: Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration - April 22 on

Unread post by pablo19 »

Something happened when I started using tapatalk, is it posssible to merge the pablo and pablo 19 usernames? :oops:

I've searched for some of the people that appear on the cards, here is my not very comprehensive and not 100% correct (some should be clearly correct while others involved some guessing) all characters are somehow related to Thüringen and the Wartburg:

-Queen of clubs on the left: Maria Pavlovna of Russia

-Jack of diamonds ont he left: konrad von thüringen, or ludwig I von thüringen

-Jack of diamonds center: Wolfgang von Eschenbach or Walter von der Vogelweide

-Queen of hearts left: Wolfgang von Eschenbach or Walter von der Vogelweide

-King of spades right: Martin luther

-Queen of diamonds left: Elisabeth of hungary

-Queen of spades left: Ludwig der springer (i.e. Louis the jumper)

-Card back & Jack of clubs center: Ludwig der eiserne (i.e. Louis of iron)

-King of spades: Friedrich ludwig jahn

-Jack of spades left and right: Heinrich III (meissen) and on the left the boy with the horse as depicted in codex manesse.

I'll update the list when I have some more time.
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Re: Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration - April 22 on

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

Ref: merging two user posts, not really do-able, although I suppose with a great deal of effort you can change ownership for individual messages. Unfortunately there are already 19 for this secondary account.

What happened?
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Members are encouraged to
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Re: Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration - April 22 on

Unread post by pablo19 »

I haven't been able to locate the booklet, but a part of it is contained in "Die Dondorf'schen Luxus-Spielkarten" by Detlef Hoffmann and Margot Dietrich, proving that I did get some of the characters right.
Maybe it would be possible to conctact the authors to supplement the KS page or a booklet (if budget allows) for these cards, using their text and/or the text from the booklet?

Here is a brief preview/translation of text from the accompanying booklet, I'll post a complete translation soon:
"[The artist] had, after all, adorned the back of the cards with the illustration of the Wartburg and anchored the theme of this deck in the heart of German landscapes; there, were more than one german figure would arise to great heights, whether we think of Saint Elisabeth or Martin Luther, Walther von der Vogelweide and Wolfram von Eschenbach or the artwork of Richard Wagner [...]"
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Re: Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration - April 22 on

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

A couple more fully restored cards:
2017-04-09 20.05.00.jpg
2017-04-09 20.05.53.jpg
>Mike<
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself"
They say "Ignorance is bliss". Obviously, some people are much happier than others...

Members are encouraged to
Show Us Your Cards!


Our UC2021 Decks entitled
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Re: Clean up on Aisle 3!

Unread post by rousselle »

:drool:
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Re: Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration - April 22 on

Unread post by RichK »

Mike,

Dumb question since I'm in for a set but why do the originals and restoration cards have such incredible portrait like painting but then it looks like they used MS Paint to do the pips and other things? Look at the QoS, incredible art but the Spade looks so different and "cartoon-ish". I'd think they would have wanted them just as artistic.

Thanks for any info you might know. Am still looking forward to this and many more you/Lotrek do!
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Re: Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration - April 22 on

Unread post by pablo19 »

1933
9,2x6cm
Tax stamp: Weimar Republic
Cardback: young knight in front of Wartburg
2x54 cards, Bridge rule-book and booklet
Inv.- 1980-213

Further text from the booklet:

"A German playing card set we call the cards, that we give to our friends to celebrate and remember the one hundred year anniversary of the foundation of our house. A German set - not only because of its provenance, but also from its art and craftmanship" [...] "The artist, who has crafted it, is in possesion of all late artistic maturity, that manual work ability, sophisticated taste and a full imagination that lead to this conclusion; he has his eye wide open for the beauty of German art and the most vivid feeling for the idealism of our German past. With this, he was able to achieve in the cards presented to show figures of cards that embody the strengths and strivings of the German being: In kings, resting on churches and armies, the founders and fosterers of the Reich, the promoters and protectors of commerce and manufacture, navigation and agriculture, the guardians of our German way from sublime seriousness to lively happiness. In the Dames [queens] the sublime women and their known force of love, the customs of the home, the protection over the works of faith and compassion and the beautiful arts. In the boys [jacks] the knighthood, the happiness that comes from hunting, the poetry and study. He had, after all adorned the back of the cards with a picture of the Wartburg and anchored the theme of this set in the heart of German landscapes; there, where more than once the German being was elevated to the peaks, whether we think of saint Elisabeth or Martin Luther, Walther von der Vogelweide and Wolfram von Exchenbach or the artwork of Richard Wagner. To spread through our installations such a piece gives us great joy; but, we should with this not forget those who through their talent and work have put in place the many facets of German art, to reproduce in such a comple fashion the soft beauty of artistic invention. And so it concludes: In every sense a testament to the German way and German art"

I'm not sure whether this is the complete text. If anyone wants to improve the translation I could send pictures of the text in German (not sure whether I can post it here?)

Other notes from Hoffmann and Dietrich:

-Unlike previous decks where the courts show a multitude of emotions, these courts are to show heroic strength such as in the statue of Uta in the cathedral of Naumburg and the horsemann of bamberg, which were seen as related to the Medieval epoch.

-Since Dondorf had already been sold to Flemming & Wiskott in 1929 some authors presume that the sketches for these cards had alread been finished by 1929. Though this claim is disputed by HD. Rather, the move of playing card production of Flemming nad Wiskott to Frankfurt in 1932 is likely to be when this set was planned for.

-The booklet makes clear that the cards where not put out on the month of the anniversary (April) but rather in the second half of the year 1933.

-Friedrich Bell, who ran ASS at the time seems to remember having been given sketches from 1929 (when Dondorf was still under Otto Dondorf (nephew of Bernhard J. Dondorf), and that it was only the back of the cards that was illustrated in 1933.
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Re: Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration - April 22 on

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

RichK wrote:Mike,

Dumb question since I'm in for a set but why do the originals and restoration cards have such incredible portrait like painting but then it looks like they used MS Paint to do the pips and other things? Look at the QoS, incredible art but the Spade looks so different and "cartoon-ish". I'd think they would have wanted them just as artistic.

Thanks for any info you might know. Am still looking forward to this and many more you/Lotrek do!
It does look like the font used and artistic talent was concentrated on the court cards, but we are going for a restoration that is true to the OG decks with very little change. I suppose that it would be nice to have a little more elaborate pip cards, but it wouldn't be true to the first edition.
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Re: Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration - April 22 on

Unread post by RichK »

Mike Ratledge wrote:
RichK wrote:Mike,

Dumb question since I'm in for a set but why do the originals and restoration cards have such incredible portrait like painting but then it looks like they used MS Paint to do the pips and other things? Look at the QoS, incredible art but the Spade looks so different and "cartoon-ish". I'd think they would have wanted them just as artistic.

Thanks for any info you might know. Am still looking forward to this and many more you/Lotrek do!
It does look like the font used and artistic talent was concentrated on the court cards, but we are going for a restoration that is true to the OG decks with very little change. I suppose that it would be nice to have a little more elaborate pip cards, but it wouldn't be true to the first edition.
Thanks Mike for the info. Seems odd to me that they'd not go for more elaborate pip but maybe it was too hard to add another 2 artistic layers.
Move on, nothing to see here.
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Re: Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration - April 22 on

Unread post by Lotrek »

RichK wrote:
Mike Ratledge wrote:
RichK wrote:Mike,

Dumb question since I'm in for a set but why do the originals and restoration cards have such incredible portrait like painting but then it looks like they used MS Paint to do the pips and other things? Look at the QoS, incredible art but the Spade looks so different and "cartoon-ish". I'd think they would have wanted them just as artistic.

Thanks for any info you might know. Am still looking forward to this and many more you/Lotrek do!
It does look like the font used and artistic talent was concentrated on the court cards, but we are going for a restoration that is true to the OG decks with very little change. I suppose that it would be nice to have a little more elaborate pip cards, but it wouldn't be true to the first edition.
Thanks Mike for the info. Seems odd to me that they'd not go for more elaborate pip but maybe it was too hard to add another 2 artistic layers.
The originals have very plain pips, hand drawn. This means that they're not perfectly symmetrical nor are they very sharp edged. The technology of the time used to print this deck wouldn't allow it anyway, even if they wanted it. Inspecting the very hi-res scans, I came to the conclusion that what they wanted was a clean-cut shape for the pips as opposed to the detailed freehand painting style for the courts. They came as close as they could to this but we didn't see any point in trying to mimick the imperfections of the era's technology.
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Re: Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration - April 22 on

Unread post by RichK »

Lotrek wrote:
RichK wrote:
Mike Ratledge wrote:
RichK wrote:Mike,

Dumb question since I'm in for a set but why do the originals and restoration cards have such incredible portrait like painting but then it looks like they used MS Paint to do the pips and other things? Look at the QoS, incredible art but the Spade looks so different and "cartoon-ish". I'd think they would have wanted them just as artistic.

Thanks for any info you might know. Am still looking forward to this and many more you/Lotrek do!
It does look like the font used and artistic talent was concentrated on the court cards, but we are going for a restoration that is true to the OG decks with very little change. I suppose that it would be nice to have a little more elaborate pip cards, but it wouldn't be true to the first edition.
Thanks Mike for the info. Seems odd to me that they'd not go for more elaborate pip but maybe it was too hard to add another 2 artistic layers.
The originals have very plain pips, hand drawn. This means that they're not perfectly symmetrical nor are they very sharp edged. The technology of the time used to print this deck wouldn't allow it anyway, even if they wanted it. Inspecting the very hi-res scans, I came to the conclusion that what they wanted was a clean-cut shape for the pips as opposed to the detailed freehand painting style for the courts. They came as close as they could to this but we didn't see any point in trying to mimick the imperfections of the era's technology.
Thanks for the info!
Move on, nothing to see here.
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Re: Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration - April 22 on

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

Pablo, I just realized that the book you have is the same one I have "Die Dondorf'schen Luxus-Spielkaten" by Detlef Hoffman & Margot Dietrich. My copy is hand signed dedicated by Detlef Hoffman to the German Playing Card Museum, I believe. I will snap a pix of the signing. It looks like "Hr/Mr Charles Peter Fitzpatrick"? (dated 30-August-1984) I'm not sure but guessing that second line says something about him being a visitor to the museum?

The paragraph you translated goes on to say that ASS reproduced it in 1975, but only in 9 color offset printing, as opposed to the original 28 "stone" (plate) chromolithography.

Interesting commentary. I can barely read Danish, so Deutsche isn't happening, but I can use Google Translate picture method to Anglicize it about 1/4 page at a time.
2017-04-15 20.46.39.jpg
As Lotrek points out, chromolithography involveds etching things into stone, likely limestone - (in mirror image) and doesn't allow for terribly precise corners, etc. These restoration cards will actually be what they intended, with precise edges and bright colors which using modern CMYK methods are basically unlimited.
>Mike<
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They say "Ignorance is bliss". Obviously, some people are much happier than others...

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Re: Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration - April 22 on

Unread post by pablo19 »

Mike Ratledge wrote:Pablo, I just realized that the book you have is the same one I have "Die Dondorf'schen Luxus-Spielkaten" by Detlef Hoffman & Margot Dietrich. My copy is hand signed dedicated by Detlef Hoffman to the German Playing Card Museum, I believe. I will snap a pix of the signing. It looks like "Hr/Mr Charles Peter Fitzpatrick"? (dated 30-August-1984) I'm not sure but guessing that second line says something about him being a visitor to the museum?

The paragraph you translated goes on to say that ASS reproduced it in 1975, but only in 9 color offset printing, as opposed to the original 28 "stone" (plate) chromolithography.

Interesting commentary. I can barely read Danish, so Deutsche isn't happening, but I can use Google Translate picture method to Anglicize it about 1/4 page at a time.
2017-04-15 20.46.39.jpg
As Lotrek points out, chromolithography involveds etching things into stone, likely limestone - (in mirror image) and doesn't allow for terribly precise corners, etc. These restoration cards will actually be what they intended, with precise edges and bright colors which using modern CMYK methods are basically unlimited.
Yes, that's the same book! It's made out to Mr. Fitzapatrick on the occasion of his visit to the German Playing card museum. I believe these books were made for a special exhibition of Dondorf cards at the German Playing card Museum.

I wonder if chromolithography is something Lotrek would try out, from the most modern foiling techniques of playing card manufacturing too its roots in limestone.

I'm not sure if this applies or if I'm getting this right, but one advantage of Chromolithography as opposed to offset (maybe also CMYK) printing is that the colour fills the space. For example, Lotreks' Icons Sacred edition shows these colored dots from printing ( see https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/cmyk-do ... 642924.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) , which are not noticeable at arms length but if you look a bit closer you can clearly see them. On the other hand, if you used something like chromolithography (or any other type of print where you roll paint onto a carved out surface and then press it on paper you would not find these "dots" even if you looked really closely.
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Re: Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration - April 22 on

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

Interesting. Chromolithography results at best might be something like the letterpress deck that Lorenzo is / has done. I don't think that using discrete carved stones for every single color is do-able, if even practical these days, you likely would have to reconstruct the tools to do it, I guess.

Curious that you can see dots with his work, it's done with plates like anything except digital presses that MPC (and other small run printers) use, those are typically HP "Indigo" or Kodachrrome presses. Ink placed by plates should cover the area, just like it did using limestone with chromolithographic technology.

Modern presses like French made Webpress (large USPCC runs) and Heidelberg German made presses (basically everyone else) have five or six up to eight print stations and one sealing station. That allows CMYK +up to four more inks, typically Pantone or metallic ink colors that give us the vibrant and diverse colors and metallics we are used to getting these days. One thing for certain, even if it is doable, it would take an army of people to carve 28 stones, for example.
>Mike<
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself"
They say "Ignorance is bliss". Obviously, some people are much happier than others...

Members are encouraged to
Show Us Your Cards!


Our UC2021 Decks entitled
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Re: Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration - April 22 on

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

Prototype decks arrived today, and show exactly where we are going, but I can't promise these borderless (back & faces). We will push it as far as possible, given that we are printing 250 pairs. I got a little too close on these, there should be no indices touching the corners. The backs are indeed edge to edge covered.
IMG_20170418_151617_525.jpg
As I noted, pushing for a "framed" presentation on the prototype decks. Nobody can get this close with analog equipment, but this shows that latest contemporary methods of flashing copper-aluminum alloy foil don't burn the ink. Previously you could not print too closely to the borders or the gilding flash would melt the ink too close to the edges. These frankly look unreal, but they are exactly what you see - edge to edge faces and backs with gilded sides.
>Mike<
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself"
They say "Ignorance is bliss". Obviously, some people are much happier than others...

Members are encouraged to
Show Us Your Cards!


Our UC2021 Decks entitled
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Re: Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration - April 22 on

Unread post by Azid »

Mike Ratledge wrote: My copy is hand signed dedicated by Detlef Hoffman to the German Playing Card Museum, I believe. I will snap a pix of the signing. It looks like "Hr/Mr Charles Peter Fitzpatrick"? (dated 30-August-1984) I'm not sure but guessing that second line says something about him being a visitor to the museum?

You are right,

"Mr. Charles Peter Fitzpatrick on the occasion of a visit in the german playing card museum.
30.8.1984
Detlef Hoffman "
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