Thanks. That did it!dcmcalirep wrote:I put "restoration" in the search box and they popped up.
1x Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration for $105.00 each
Thanks. That did it!dcmcalirep wrote:I put "restoration" in the search box and they popped up.
It's my hope there could be some really, really plain & cheap display decks along with the Cadillac version. Perhaps the 250 print run is a tad too small.Mike Ratledge wrote:Thank you to those who already backed this project! You will be receiving Dondorf #1000 Hundertjahrkarte restoration sets with numbers in the low "teens", and I am humbled by your faith in this endeavor.
I knew this would come up, so let me explain how we arrived at the price: we have to have $100 per set to even break even, and the fact is that I want to keep a little bit in the tank to help jump start future restoration projects. Using PayPal, Shopify payments (and Stripe on KS) we get about 90-95% of the actual amount pledged. For Shopify & PayPal outside KS it amounts to $101.65 after they take their discount for domestic / US backers and only $100.08 if you are overseas. Once we get to Kickstarter, out of $130 we get about $117. That alone was reason enough to push the price up $13. Now, KS isn't exactly that, I am sure someone will point out, but if you only get the main deck there we get $99 for US backers and about $98 overseas. I am not making a bunch of money here.
We have not nailed down anything specific, but I am looking at decks like the original Orient Express and "Four Seasons" - both of which have the old style 3/4 perspective courts. Two distinct avenues exist, one with other beautiful Dondorf decks made for the Danish market in the early 1900's like the Saks & Co deck, Le Hombre, Luxeskarte, etc. The other I already mentioned, and would involve trying to get licenses from other companies. I would love to hear suggestions, but realize that some of them might be impossible to get the rights to do.
You know that I had hoped to be able to do them less expensively and sell them outside of the main project without the fancy restoration deck, let's say for around $10 anyway.TGunitedcardists wrote:It's my hope there could be some really, really plain & cheap display decks along with the Cadillac version. Perhaps the 250 print run is a tad too small.
What I don't understand is the license fees. Aren't really old decks out of copyright?
This is excellent news and information. I love old decks. The cheaper prices for the non-fancy versions are most welcome. Good news on the horizon. Thanks for taking the time to explain the process.Mike Ratledge wrote: You know that I had hoped to be able to do them less expensively and sell them outside of the main project without the fancy restoration deck, let's say for around $10 anyway.
I had to agree to baby steps this time. No matter what I claim or show the marketing people for - in this case Cartamundi - they want to see me walk the walk and not just talk the talk.
We absolutely WILL do exactly that, and hopefully we can get less restricted terms in the future, but for now originally I only got permission to do 250 decks total, and only by showing my cards I was able to convince them to let me add 250 Player's decks.
That number of decks just isn't enough to get the price down to a reasonable amount. I expect that the Player's decks will cost $8 without gilding. That's not a lot of leeway when I only have 250 to work with. It also doesn't include anything else, licensing or other fees, which I am trying to bury in the main 250 decks.
We'll see, moving forward, but the absolute best thing that can happen for the future success of this outstanding first attempt is for it to sell out and have people wanting more - way more. That's why I am so picky about how it is done, and hopefully it will get us to that next level. I can't possibly predict exactly where this will go, but my hopes are that I can do more in the near future. If it's truly successful I hope to be able to make at least 500 of future restoration decks. I have to be careful, if they become commodities instead of true novelties, they could end up being unworthy or unwanted. Maybe we can get to 1000? That's the upper limit in my mind, at least for the true restoration decks.
"Dondorf" works, also.dcmcalirep wrote:I put "restoration" in the search box and they popped up.
If ever there was a deck with a story, this is it. I detailed it partially in the first couple of posts. I am looking for the booklet (likely only in German?) that came with these or maybe with the German reprint. I want to complete the picture, and include it with the restoration set. I have found most of the small things included in the OG set, but I don't have that.Great Lakes Cards wrote:Best of luck with this project. I love the attention to detail and restoration over profit. I understand that bills have to get paid but I love the idea of taking these older/historic decks and exposing them to a wider/new audience. Part of the fun of playing cards for me is seeing the role they play in telling the history of where they are from - both geographically and timeline. I'm not sure my budget will allow snagging one of these but I'm fully on board in spirit.
I'm getting the German reprint soon, so I'll let you know. I'll also look into it on the web.Mike Ratledge wrote:If ever there was a sec with a story, this is it. I detailed it partially in the first couple of posts. I am looking for the booklet (likely only in German?) that came with these or maybe with the German reprint. I want to complete the picture, and include it with the restoration set. I have found most of the small things included in the OG set, but I don't have that.Great Lakes Cards wrote:Best of luck with this project. I love the attention to detail and restoration over profit. I understand that bills have to get paid but I love the idea of taking these older/historic decks and exposing them to a wider/new audience. Part of the fun of playing cards for me is seeing the role they play in telling the history of where they are from - both geographically and timeline. I'm not sure my budget will allow snagging one of these but I'm fully on board in spirit.
It does look like the font used and artistic talent was concentrated on the court cards, but we are going for a restoration that is true to the OG decks with very little change. I suppose that it would be nice to have a little more elaborate pip cards, but it wouldn't be true to the first edition.RichK wrote:Mike,
Dumb question since I'm in for a set but why do the originals and restoration cards have such incredible portrait like painting but then it looks like they used MS Paint to do the pips and other things? Look at the QoS, incredible art but the Spade looks so different and "cartoon-ish". I'd think they would have wanted them just as artistic.
Thanks for any info you might know. Am still looking forward to this and many more you/Lotrek do!
Thanks Mike for the info. Seems odd to me that they'd not go for more elaborate pip but maybe it was too hard to add another 2 artistic layers.Mike Ratledge wrote:It does look like the font used and artistic talent was concentrated on the court cards, but we are going for a restoration that is true to the OG decks with very little change. I suppose that it would be nice to have a little more elaborate pip cards, but it wouldn't be true to the first edition.RichK wrote:Mike,
Dumb question since I'm in for a set but why do the originals and restoration cards have such incredible portrait like painting but then it looks like they used MS Paint to do the pips and other things? Look at the QoS, incredible art but the Spade looks so different and "cartoon-ish". I'd think they would have wanted them just as artistic.
Thanks for any info you might know. Am still looking forward to this and many more you/Lotrek do!
The originals have very plain pips, hand drawn. This means that they're not perfectly symmetrical nor are they very sharp edged. The technology of the time used to print this deck wouldn't allow it anyway, even if they wanted it. Inspecting the very hi-res scans, I came to the conclusion that what they wanted was a clean-cut shape for the pips as opposed to the detailed freehand painting style for the courts. They came as close as they could to this but we didn't see any point in trying to mimick the imperfections of the era's technology.RichK wrote:Thanks Mike for the info. Seems odd to me that they'd not go for more elaborate pip but maybe it was too hard to add another 2 artistic layers.Mike Ratledge wrote:It does look like the font used and artistic talent was concentrated on the court cards, but we are going for a restoration that is true to the OG decks with very little change. I suppose that it would be nice to have a little more elaborate pip cards, but it wouldn't be true to the first edition.RichK wrote:Mike,
Dumb question since I'm in for a set but why do the originals and restoration cards have such incredible portrait like painting but then it looks like they used MS Paint to do the pips and other things? Look at the QoS, incredible art but the Spade looks so different and "cartoon-ish". I'd think they would have wanted them just as artistic.
Thanks for any info you might know. Am still looking forward to this and many more you/Lotrek do!
Thanks for the info!Lotrek wrote:The originals have very plain pips, hand drawn. This means that they're not perfectly symmetrical nor are they very sharp edged. The technology of the time used to print this deck wouldn't allow it anyway, even if they wanted it. Inspecting the very hi-res scans, I came to the conclusion that what they wanted was a clean-cut shape for the pips as opposed to the detailed freehand painting style for the courts. They came as close as they could to this but we didn't see any point in trying to mimick the imperfections of the era's technology.RichK wrote:Thanks Mike for the info. Seems odd to me that they'd not go for more elaborate pip but maybe it was too hard to add another 2 artistic layers.Mike Ratledge wrote:It does look like the font used and artistic talent was concentrated on the court cards, but we are going for a restoration that is true to the OG decks with very little change. I suppose that it would be nice to have a little more elaborate pip cards, but it wouldn't be true to the first edition.RichK wrote:Mike,
Dumb question since I'm in for a set but why do the originals and restoration cards have such incredible portrait like painting but then it looks like they used MS Paint to do the pips and other things? Look at the QoS, incredible art but the Spade looks so different and "cartoon-ish". I'd think they would have wanted them just as artistic.
Thanks for any info you might know. Am still looking forward to this and many more you/Lotrek do!
Yes, that's the same book! It's made out to Mr. Fitzapatrick on the occasion of his visit to the German Playing card museum. I believe these books were made for a special exhibition of Dondorf cards at the German Playing card Museum.Mike Ratledge wrote:Pablo, I just realized that the book you have is the same one I have "Die Dondorf'schen Luxus-Spielkaten" by Detlef Hoffman & Margot Dietrich. My copy is hand signed dedicated by Detlef Hoffman to the German Playing Card Museum, I believe. I will snap a pix of the signing. It looks like "Hr/Mr Charles Peter Fitzpatrick"? (dated 30-August-1984) I'm not sure but guessing that second line says something about him being a visitor to the museum?
The paragraph you translated goes on to say that ASS reproduced it in 1975, but only in 9 color offset printing, as opposed to the original 28 "stone" (plate) chromolithography.
Interesting commentary. I can barely read Danish, so Deutsche isn't happening, but I can use Google Translate picture method to Anglicize it about 1/4 page at a time.
As Lotrek points out, chromolithography involveds etching things into stone, likely limestone - (in mirror image) and doesn't allow for terribly precise corners, etc. These restoration cards will actually be what they intended, with precise edges and bright colors which using modern CMYK methods are basically unlimited.
Mike Ratledge wrote: My copy is hand signed dedicated by Detlef Hoffman to the German Playing Card Museum, I believe. I will snap a pix of the signing. It looks like "Hr/Mr Charles Peter Fitzpatrick"? (dated 30-August-1984) I'm not sure but guessing that second line says something about him being a visitor to the museum?
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