DYSTOPIA Playing Cards by Joker & Thief -- Live on KS

[jerichoholic]

I like the design myself but I don't like the shipping cost. $12 to ship 1 deck to Canada, I can get it with less shipping from Art of Play later.

[Joker and the Thief]

I like the design myself but I don't like the shipping cost. $12 to ship 1 deck to Canada, I can get it with less shipping from Art of Play later.

Glad to hear you like Dystopia's design. You'll find that if you buy these off Art of Play later (it isn't confirmed that they will be stocking them yet) that the shipping prices will be close to identical. As we are using their fulfilment services.

We're currently at 52% funding, all and any support now would be greatly appreciated to ensure that this project actually happens!

Again, thank you all for your support!

Cheers,
James
Joker and the Thief Playing Cards

[sinjin7]

Design is subjective, so I won't get into that aspect at all. Unfortunately, this campaign is struggling to overcome 3 main obstacles:

1 - These guys had two previous campaigns that were not run that smoothly on KS, and I think people remember that. The 2nd campaign attracted less supporters than the first, and this third campaign is following that negative trend.

2 - These decks are over-priced, it's as simple as that. Especially considering there are so many well-designed decks coming out now days that are much more competitively priced. I think J&T realized this and put out another tier at the more realistic EB pricing, but all that does is make those who pledged for the full-priced tiers to drop their pledge to get the new EB priced tier, which undercuts the gains they make from attracting new supporters at the lower price point.

3 - One of the biggest complaints is about the shipping. Since they keep using Art of Play to do their fulfillment, the shipping rates will continue to be very high.

I also found it pretty disingenuous that they suggested the Dystopia deck may not be carried by Art of Play. If these fund, of course they'll be carried by Art of Play, we all know this. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if we see an 11th hour boost to get them over the top and funded, with said boost coming from. . .wait for it. . .Art of Play.

[Azid]

Relaunching: Friday, January 13th, 6PM PST!

They say that funding goal will be lower and fulfilled this time by Amazon.
And printed by USPCC instead of EPCC.

Full Article here:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jo ... ts/1771807" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Joker and the Thief]

Hi all, thanks to Azid for posting an update here! Yes we are returning on Friday, January 13th at 6pm PST!

We'd like to thank everyone on this forum for your contribution to the original campaign and for all of your advice and feedback. We have taken this on board. We'll briefly list a few changes on this campaign:

1 - MUCH lower funding goal.
2 - Printed by USPCC
3 - Lower prices per deck
4 - Custom letterpress tuckbox, utilising luxurious imported dyed paper, deep embossing and rich foiling. Made in the USA by Clove St. Press (Same tuck manufacturers for Dan and Dave and using the same process undertaken by theory11).
5 - Fulfilment by Amazon. While the price for sending single decks internationally will remain mostly the same (these costs are unavoidable when shipping from the USA) International rates for multiple decks are MUCH fairer. Shipping within the USA is also heavily discounted. Plus Amazon is fast, and reliable!
6 - Much faster production turn around time due to manufacturing and shipping within the USA. We aim to get you your decks sooner!
7- Of course we have some awesome early bird sales!

That's the basic run down. Please check out our update for more details. We hope to see you on Kickstarter on the January 13th @ 6PM PST!

Thank you guys!

[Joker and the Thief]

Hi all,

Apologies for the double post!

Just a reminder that we are relaunching in less than 24 hours - tomorrow at 6PM PST!
We have $10usd Early Bird Specials in limited quantities as both Single Deck and Two Deck tiers!

See you tomorrow, and thank you in advance for your support!

Cheers,
James
Joker and the Thief Playing Cards

[vasta41]

I'm happy this came back. Better than before, too! I'll be there (9pm EST).

[Joker and the Thief]

I'm happy this came back. Better than before, too! I'll be there (9pm EST).

Thank you! We're excited to see you there!

[Joker and the Thief]

We're less than 12 hours away guys! Be sure to get ready for when Dystopia drops on Kickstarter at 6PM PST.
Tell your friends, your neighbours, that random guy in the street, even your local barista!

See you very soon and thank you very much for you continued support here on this forum!

[Joker and the Thief]

We're just under an hour away from launch, everyone! We hope to see you there. We will post a link here as soon as we go live!

[Joker and the Thief]

We are LIVE - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jo ... ying-cards" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[jerichoholic]

$20 to ship 1 deck to Canada? No thanks, I'll get it later.

[montenzi]

Like this design. But last time 1 deck + shipping was 16+17=AU$33, now 14+20(???)=AU$34.

[Azid]

Backed ! Jumped on the EARLY BIRD SPECIAL #2 (2 Decks) with international shipping = 47 AUD which is about 35 US $, that's not bad

[Joker and the Thief]

$20 to ship 1 deck to Canada? No thanks, I'll get it later.

Keep in mind that that is $20 Australian. We made sure to let everyone know that we've been able to make multiple decks far more affordable. The price to ship from the USA for single decks is simply unavoidable, however we were able to greatly reduce the prices for multiple decks internationally.

Like this design. But last time 1 deck + shipping was 16+17=AU$33, now 14+20(???)=AU$34.

During the last campaign, we found that the shipping prices became much steeper as the amount of decks increased in an order. We've been able to reduce the price per deck + reduce the international rates on decks of 2 or more.

Thank you for your feedback guys!

[jerichoholic]

It still costs less on nearly every other project

[Joker and the Thief]

It still costs less on nearly every other project

We have done our very best to reduce the shipping costs internationally on pledges of 2 decks or more and within the USA the rates are even lower than what they were with Art of Play.

Several improvements have been made with this project, not to mention the decks sport a lower price tag in this campaign. For playing cards made to this quality, with a fast turn around time, AND the added security of knowing your packages will actually arrive safe and sound - we consider the prices to be fair.

Cheers,
- The Joker and the Thief Team

[Magic_Orthodoxy]

WOO HOO ! I can't wait - glad this project came back

[RichK]

In for 1. Good luck!

[rorschach]

It still costs less on nearly every other project

Totally agree here. $20 AUD for shipping is pretty inflated. I literally just backed another Kickstarter a few minutes ago that I paid half the cost for shipping for. As long as their are enough supporters stateside to get this project funded, it will most likely be cheaper for anyone international to pick these up via third party.

[Joker and the Thief]

In for 1. Good luck!

WOO HOO ! I can't wait - glad this project came back

Thank you guys! We appreciate your support!

We've got the pedal to the metal as we accelerate towards 100%. We're currently sitting at 71% funding!

Just thought to let you all know that there are less than 35 $10 Early Bird decks left. Be sure to get in and snag yours as quickly as you can!
http://kck.st/2iumeKR" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[sms69x]

That int'l shipping!!! Oh boy that's a f***ing rip-off...
I'm sure you'll get this funded and I'm sure I can get this decks in the after market for a way better deal than this... $15 to ship one deck?? $17 to ship 2... Good luck with that!

We have done our very best to reduce the shipping costs internationally on pledges of 2 decks or more and within the USA the rates are even lower than what they were with Art of Play.

(...) we consider the prices to be fair.

Did you by any chance checked JR Pearl Tally Ho project, he offers int'l shipping starting from $6 to one deck, $8 for two, and then it's just $2 more for any extra deck you add (I could get 6 decks from that canpaingn and pay almost the same that you ask for just one deck in yours for shipping, ridiculous!), do you see the difference?

[rorschach]

Would it be fair to make the assumption that the majority of backers for this and a lot of playing card projects are located in the USA?

If this is the case, then it would certainly appear international customers are picking up a lot of the shipping tab. That or Amazon cut them a really good deal at the backers expense as shipping is double for a single deck relative to what it should be, and not much better for multiple decks as sms69x stated above.

I don't mean to skew the conversation from the fact that these are really nice decks, because they are awesome, but the shipping costs on this project are especially bad. It makes it hard to support when this kind of stuff happens.

[sms69x]

Would it be fair to make the assumption that the majority of backers for this and a lot of playing card projects are located in the USA?

Yes thats the case for most of KS projects with the percentage o US backers being from 50% to 70%, so creators usualy don't care that much for int'l backers. But from the list of projects I supported those that offer lower int'l shipping cost get a percentage of about 50% - 55% of int'l backers, which shows that if creators realy put some effort to find the best deals for int'l shipping they get a lot of support from us. But either way I gues they are happy with just funding the project!

I don't mean to skew the conversation from the fact that these are really nice decks, because they are awesome, but the shipping costs on this project are especially bad. It makes it hard to support when this kind of stuff happens.

You can wait for the after market, I sure that some retailers will get this deck and they sure will offer you a shipping rate way lower than this. Even with their gain margin I'm confident you'll save some money. (At least I'm hopping this, as I will not pay this outrageous shipping price)

[Joker and the Thief]

That int'l shipping!!! Oh boy that's a f***ing rip-off...
I'm sure you'll get this funded and I'm sure I can get this decks in the after market for a way better deal than this... $15 to ship one deck?? $17 to ship 2... Good luck with that!

We have done our very best to reduce the shipping costs internationally on pledges of 2 decks or more and within the USA the rates are even lower than what they were with Art of Play.

(...) we consider the prices to be fair.

Did you by any chance checked JR Pearl Tally Ho project, he offers int'l shipping starting from $6 to one deck, $8 for two, and then it's just $2 more for any extra deck you add (I could get 6 decks from that canpaingn and pay almost the same that you ask for just one deck in yours for shipping, ridiculous!), do you see the difference?

Thank you for your feedback. We disagree about your comments about our shipping costs being a rip off however.

- Amazon charge us a base price, and that's what we charge. There are no special deals with a company as massive as Amazon.
- Also notice the price per deck of Jackson's playing cards. He has significantly more room to move in regards to adjusting his international shipping costs by losing a little profit on his decks.
- While Gambler's does have slightly cheaper fulfilment prices, don't forget to take into account Jackson's personal relationships he may have with them, and the benefits that may include.
- Further, with Amazon, like Art of Play, your cards will arrive quickly, with professional packing, ensuring your package is going to actually arrive safely with no mixups. Mix ups on orders is something we've heard about with several smaller fulfilment centres, and that's something we simply won't tolerate for the benefit of our backers.
- There is also a point with International Shipping from the USA, where base costs are simply unavoidable. You would be paying something similar, if not more if you were shopping with companies like theory11 or Dan and Dave.

As always we appreciate your feedback and comments. We took on board the comments, especially from this forum, about our rates with Art of Play and we have done something about it. International Rates on multiple decks, are far fairer and remains steady on decks of two or more with Amazon.

Thanks again for your support and for raising this issue. We hope you have a great day!

Cheers,
- The Joker and the Thief Team

[rorschach]

I appreciate that Joker and the Thief are actively trying to help us work out why these costs are so high, but any way you spin this, international customers are getting gouged.

I, for instance am in Canada and am paying the same base price as someone on the other side of the globe. I'm not saying Canada should be given any special treatment over anywhere else, i'm just outlining the large disparity that seems to be happening here. More so since all US backers get free shipping, that can't be a small dollar amount.

[Joker and the Thief]

I appreciate that Joker and the Thief are actively trying to help us work out why these costs are so high, but any way you spin this, international customers are getting gouged.

I, for instance am in Canada and am paying the same base price as someone on the other side of the globe. I'm not saying Canada should be given any special treatment over anywhere else, i'm just outlining the large disparity that seems to be happening here. More so since all US backers get free shipping, that can't be a small dollar amount.

Thank you for your understanding.
Base line is - 9/10 times International Shipping is a pain in almost any scenario. We understand, especially if you're based so close to the USA, in Canada.
We will endeavour to find alternatives for future projects, however, based on the standards we wish to uphold for our backers - Amazon is the best, and most reliable option at this time.

We are happy to say that this campaign is going very well! We recently passed 75% funding. We're 3/4 of the way there! Thank you for all of the help, suggestions, feedback, comments, and support that have come from this forum. You have certainly helped us over the course of our campaigns. Only a last little push now and we should be across the line!

Cheers,
The Joker and the Thief Team

[bamabenz]

<snip/>
- While Gambler's does have slightly cheaper fulfilment prices, don't forget to take into account Jackson's personal relationships he may have with them, and the benefits that may include.
<snip/>

What a strange thing to say.

It's certainly possible that Kings' Wild is getting a volume discount that you would not qualify for. I doubt Jackson knew Eddie before he started doing business with him. They are likely good 'business buddies' now, but so what?

/bama

[Joker and the Thief]

<snip/>
- While Gambler's does have slightly cheaper fulfilment prices, don't forget to take into account Jackson's personal relationships he may have with them, and the benefits that may include.
<snip/>

What a strange thing to say.

It's certainly possible that Kings' Wild is getting a volume discount that you would not qualify for. I doubt Jackson knew Eddie before he started doing business with him. They are likely good 'business buddies' now, but so what?

/bama

Not strange whatsoever. Unlike us, Jackson and Gambler's have obviously worked together in the past. That relationship could very well contribute to Jackson's low shipping prices, if it is indeed the case.
Hope that makes sense.

Regardless, our shipping prices are the way they are because of the reasons we have listed.

Cheers,
- The Joker and the Thief Team

[jerichoholic]

Why not try CPC? They offer fulfilment and I'm sure their rates are ok. I'm not sure Amazon is the best bet, let alone they've never fulfilled any card projects to my knowledge.