L I T U R G Y "TREASURE" Edition on UCdecksales.com

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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by shaitani »

I don't have a stake in Lotrek's ultimate decision because I missed the pre-order. That said I have followed what's happened and believe that there is no perfect decision, BUT there is clearly a best available decision.

Put a sticker or something on the cellophane of the mis-aligned deck saying "Mis-aligned" or "Prototype" or "Version 0" or something, so it's clear that this deck is not representative of the expected quality, but is a special case born of necessity.

Give the pre-order people the option to receive the mis-aligned deck (optionally with a partial refund as goodwill) or simply receive a complete refund.
Next, give them the option to then pre-order from the reprint on the less-rare stock for a fair discount.

The reprint ideally is a batch of equal or greater quantity, and ideally with something visually different on the tuck to tell them apart from the mis-aligned deck.

That should satisfy everyone from rarity collectors, rare stock appreciators, art appreciators, and those who open and play with the cards.
Although it won't satisfy those who can no longer possibly be satisfied (those who expect Lotrek to rewind time and fix the mis-alignment on the rare stock)
I don't see an outcome that is better than this.
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards (wap)

Unread post by Bikefanatic »

UtterFool wrote:
vincero wrote:My 2 cents and personal happiness rating are as follows based on non-exhaustive scenarios (out of 10):
My individual weightings out of 10
Rarity factor out of 4
Quality/Beauty out of 4
Brand loyalty and goodwill out of 2
Scenario 1:misaligned deck only 6=4+2+0
Scenario 2:misaligned deck + goodwill 7=4+2+1
Scenario 3:non-special stock deck only 6=2+4+0
Scenario 4:non-special stock + goodwill 7=2+4+1
Scenario 5:refund -1=0+0-1
Scenario 6:misaligned deck + non-special stock 9=4+4+1
Scenario 7:new reprint with special rare stock 9=4+4+1

I am sorry... not trying to be rude.
But I do not understand this post.
is this whole thing out of 10?
or a total of 20

Sorry ... more clarity is requested... remember I am a fool after all
Yo, you not the only one who was wondering what he was talking about. We just let it slide. :?: :?: :?:

I'll like to keep one of each deck with aligned backs with non aligned fronts and if a version 2.0 is made, it could be another color(s).
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by Lotrek »

I'm taking notes...

I'm trying to find the best possible solution. One thing is for sure, I'll reprint on all bronze stock (which of course is still a rarity itself). I'm still working on the details of how and what. The reprint will definitely have a distinct tuck case, a different name (possibly "Liturgy Bronze"), a slightly different back (like a thin black border framing the back design) and a few changes in the artwork that will add beauty. I'm working on these ideas while I'm expecting the stock to arrive on the 30th of Nov.
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by Bruno »

Double double good good says I ....
And a crimson crackin' Crikey !
O, I beg of you your comprehensions,
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by Stepchild »

Lotrek wrote:I'm taking notes...
Working, reprinting, adding beauty...

I was pretty sure I wanted to stay along for the ride. No change for this funder.
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by GBAllison »

First, I have confidence that lotrek will come up with the best answer. I for one trust in his judgment and his instincts.
Second, while we're in wishing-for mode, I wish for a *pair* of properly-aligned decks, with contrasting-color backs.
As ever,
GB
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by Lotrek »

After a lot of thought, the final decision is made:

1) All orders will be fulfilled with the "good" decks, these of the second print run on bronze stock.
2) Each package will also contain a green back deck (black/bronze stock) from the misaligned print run for free. This will be in a very basic tuck case and it will be a gift to all.
3) A limited number of red back misaligned decks will be available as add-ons for purchase @ $15 (shipment is included). These decks will be in a more elaborate tuck case made of the original stock intended for the tucks with inner printing but will have metallic inks instead of gold foil. There will probably be a 24h time limit for this sale.
After that, all the remaining decks will be destroyed. For the fun of it I'll show the destroying process in a video.

Details about the red decks sale will be announced very soon in a newsletter to all who ordered the decks. I'll also post here.
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by Justin O. »

Thanks Lotrek
Jackson completely revolutionized the way I waste money...
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by RichK »

Justin O. wrote:Thanks Lotrek
+1

Great decision with the free gift card and "error" deck purchase. (I'd rather it be the green deck since it's my favorite color. :D )
Move on, nothing to see here.
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by Lotrek »

RichK wrote:
Justin O. wrote:Thanks Lotrek
+1

Great decision with the free gift card and "error" deck purchase. (I'd rather it be the green deck since it's my favorite color. :D )
It's not free gift card. It's free gift deck. :-)
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by Bruno »

Thanks Lotrek .... :ugking:

Merry Christmas Everbiddy .... !

from Bruno

With Bestest Wishes for 2017 and Beyond :ugdance:
O, I beg of you your comprehensions,
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my only competition is with myselves.

But Lèse-majesté, especially >Normans, natch.

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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards (wap)

Unread post by pablo19 »

I was just admiring your work on icons today as well. Super work, and thank you for this solution Im really looking forward to all of the incoming decks!! And i'll be sure to get any New things you put out!!
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by RichK »

Lotrek wrote:
RichK wrote:
Justin O. wrote:Thanks Lotrek
+1

Great decision with the free gift card and "error" deck purchase. (I'd rather it be the green deck since it's my favorite color. :D )
It's not free gift card. It's free gift deck. :-)
You made my Christmas Lotrek! :D :D :D I don't know why I read 'card' in my mind.
Move on, nothing to see here.
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Re: L I T U R G Y "TREASURE" Edition on UCdecksales.com

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

Lt.Tr.jpg
These will be available next Tuesday at 12:01PM only on UCdecksales.

UC Exclusive - Quoting Lotrek directly:


-The deck is printed on sheets that were kept uncut for that reason from the first print run. So they have survived the nasty misalignment. They are the only existing "good" decks from that print run.

-Only 130 decks exist, 120 will be available for sale

- Gold and silver foil on the backs

-air pocket finish on the front side of the cards

-improved handling compared to ICONS as they're varnished on the back side, too.

-Gold and silver foil + debossing for the tuck case. The stock used for the tucks is a very dark, light absorbing black paper which makes incredible contrast with the foils.

-Numbered and signed on the bottom of the tuck

The decks are already printed and will ship on the 5th of January.


Exact pricing is to be decided but expect under $100, with discounts for 2, 3 or 4 decks.
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by Azid »

so there is a 3rd Version (or 5th with the misalignment decks) for the Liturgy decks?
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Re: L I T U R G Y "TREASURE" Edition on UCdecksales.com

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

Azid wrote:so there is a 3rd Version (or 5th with the misalignment decks) for the Liturgy decks?
I suppose. This is a significantly different deck, but still.part of the Liturgy series.
>Mike<
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They say "Ignorance is bliss". Obviously, some people are much happier than others...

Members are encouraged to
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Re: L I T U R G Y "TREASURE" Edition on UCdecksales.com

Unread post by sms69x »

This is probabily one of the worst moves by Lotrek. So he didn't wanted to reprint the original Liturgy just to hold-on on some sheets to them produce this deck. At least he could let us know at the time. I would gladly not buying the original over this one... Guess that all the issues and reprints are very money demand, so this is a easy move to cash in some extra money... I've always been very supportive of Lotrek, but this is becoming rediculous, we have now 4 Liturgy versions (instead of 2), 5 ICONS versions (instead of 3)... And lets hope that Black Mass Gold finishs without any other issue, otherwise who knows?

Probabily will have to cancel my Liturgy order (or at least reduce it) in order to get one of these decks..
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Re: L I T U R G Y "TREASURE" Edition on UCdecksales.com (wa

Unread post by vincero »

Expected pricing under $100, when the original ideal liturgy from the same/similar multicoloured stock is ~$25... I need an explanation of how different the stock is to command the premium
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Re: L I T U R G Y "TREASURE" Edition on UCdecksales.com (wa

Unread post by sms69x »

vincero wrote:Expected pricing under $100, when the original ideal liturgy from the same/similar multicoloured stock is ~$25... I need an explanation of how different the stock is to command the premium
Not like the original, this new version is foiled (double foil indeed), so I guess the huge price difference is there...
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Re: L I T U R G Y "TREASURE" Edition on UCdecksales.com

Unread post by dogbone72 »

This is unfair for those of us who pre-ordered the 1st print that will end up getting the reprints.
Then we have to fight with everyone else on UC just fork out more money to get what we originally paid for.
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Re: L I T U R G Y "TREASURE" Edition on UCdecksales.com

Unread post by shermjack »

To be fair to Lotrek, I am sure that more than 130 decks were pre-ordered, so even if he did keep the good sheets to ship out to the original customers, how could he decide whom to ship a deck to and whom to not ship a deck to? At least this way, all original backers get the same while there is still an opportunity to get an improved Liturgy deck with double foiling.

It is a difficult situation for all of us that pre-ordered, but I am confident that Lotrek has spent a lot of time considering his options and he felt that this is the best one that will satisfy most of his supporter. Sure, it is not what we wanted to see, but I think that he is doing his best to provide his customers with what they deserve.
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Re: L I T U R G Y "TREASURE" Edition on UCdecksales.com

Unread post by dogbone72 »

For a 600 deck print, i'm sure many of us bought more than 1 deck. By limiting 1 deck per pre-order, it might just work. Also there are those who are happy with the 2nd print and do not wish to have the 1st print.
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Re: L I T U R G Y "TREASURE" Edition on UCdecksales.com

Unread post by Bruno »

Come on, get a grip
Lotrek has invested/lost heavily here already.
And if you think/pretend the product is not instantly value added, well hello ingenuousness.
You kid only yerself ....
Cough up.
O, I beg of you your comprehensions,
yet laugh at your contempts ....
my only competition is with myselves.

But Lèse-majesté, especially >Normans, natch.

Is jarnstill the Ars of the Hors Nebulous ?
Neigh .... the Effluxor of the Omniverse ??
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Re: L I T U R G Y "TREASURE" Edition on UCdecksales.com

Unread post by dogbone72 »

There goes all reasonable debate / discussion...
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Re: L I T U R G Y "TREASURE" Edition on UCdecksales.com

Unread post by Bruno »

If you say so ?
You're in charge of yer own sentiments.
Diplomacy to you too.
O, I beg of you your comprehensions,
yet laugh at your contempts ....
my only competition is with myselves.

But Lèse-majesté, especially >Normans, natch.

Is jarnstill the Ars of the Hors Nebulous ?
Neigh .... the Effluxor of the Omniverse ??
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Re: L I T U R G Y "TREASURE" Edition on UCdecksales.com

Unread post by dogbone72 »

Ah, i just realised what the add foe function is for......balance is restored 8-)
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Re: L I T U R G Y "TREASURE" Edition on UCdecksales.com

Unread post by Bruno »

You're not alone hiding there champ.
O, I beg of you your comprehensions,
yet laugh at your contempts ....
my only competition is with myselves.

But Lèse-majesté, especially >Normans, natch.

Is jarnstill the Ars of the Hors Nebulous ?
Neigh .... the Effluxor of the Omniverse ??
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Re: L I T U R G Y "TREASURE" Edition on UCdecksales.com

Unread post by Bikefanatic »

1. I ordered a green deck and red deck (the original decks that's misaligned).

2. So I now should be getting a "GOOD" green and red deck along with an (original/misaligned) green deck making it 3 decks total?

3. If I want an original misaligned red deck with a better tuck, it's $15?


I wrote this in steps so I can better understand it for myself and possibly others.
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When I don't like something, I pass. No matter who did it, how many were printed or how many (re)colors exist."

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Re: L I T U R G Y "TREASURE" Edition on UCdecksales.com

Unread post by Lotrek »

Okay, let's take it easy...

The only common LITURGY original (or whatever you want to call it) has with LITURGY Treasure is the faces -and the stock of course.
There are no "good decks" from the first print run, in the sense that the problem occurred when I printed the back side.

When I did the first print, I kept about 150 sheets UNPRINTED on the back side because I had in mind to release the foiled edition some time in the future. When I realized the problem with the original print run, I had in my hands 600 misaligned decks and 150 sheets unprinted on the back side, therefore unharmed (remember that the misalignment is between the front and back sides).

Of course the first thing that crossed my mind was to use these 180 sheets to print the back side correctly and send 1 to each backer. If you know about offset printing, you probably know that you need a lot of sheets scrapped before you get the colors right. If you add the scrapped decks during double cutting, you end up with maybe 80 good decks (if you are lucky). And then, who gets a deck and who doesn't?

Another option would be to "bury" these sheets forever. I have scrapped (literally) tons of printed paper. I could not do that again.

I decided to go ahead and use these sheets as I had originally intended: For the foiled edition. Bad decision? Maybe. From the moment I lost the posibillity to reprint on the original stock, any decision could be bad.

All (huge) reprinting costs are on my back and I tried to sell as few "bad" decks as possible. I decided to offer a free deck to all as a gift because that's what I could afford.
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Re: L I T U R G Y "TREASURE" Edition on UCdecksales.com

Unread post by shaitani »

Lotrek just answered a bunch of questions I was preparing to ask.
This all makes sense, and again, there are no decisions he could have made that wouldn't piss some people off.
In his shoes, I would have made the same decision, can anyone here say they honestly would have made a different one?
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