L I T U R G Y "TREASURE" Edition on UCdecksales.com

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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by vasta41 »

Prices for the decks aren't bad, price for shipping is. Are these coming from overseas? That could be the only thing I can think of that would cause US shipping to be $11 for both decks.
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by sms69x »

vasta41 wrote:Prices for the decks aren't bad, price for shipping is. Are these coming from overseas? That could be the only thing I can think of that would cause US shipping to be $11 for both decks.
Of course these will be shipped from Greece.
But claiming $11 to ship 2 decks overseas is bad, well I never paid that low for 2 decks shipped from US with domestic shipping already included. So consider yourself very lucky...
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by vasta41 »

sms69x wrote:
vasta41 wrote:Prices for the decks aren't bad, price for shipping is. Are these coming from overseas? That could be the only thing I can think of that would cause US shipping to be $11 for both decks.
Of course these will be shipped from Greece.
But claiming $11 to ship 2 decks overseas is bad, well I never paid that low for 2 decks shipped from US with domestic shipping already included. So consider yourself very lucky...
Oh believe me- I do. If I lived overseas I'd have to find another hobby. I don't know how you guys do it on a regular basis!
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by MagikFingerz »

vasta41 wrote:
sms69x wrote:
vasta41 wrote:Prices for the decks aren't bad, price for shipping is. Are these coming from overseas? That could be the only thing I can think of that would cause US shipping to be $11 for both decks.
Of course these will be shipped from Greece.
But claiming $11 to ship 2 decks overseas is bad, well I never paid that low for 2 decks shipped from US with domestic shipping already included. So consider yourself very lucky...
Oh believe me- I do. If I lived overseas I'd have to find another hobby. I don't know how you guys do it on a regular basis!
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by Pablo393 »

Was thinking about picking up a few more decks, but it looks like they are no longer available on Lotrek's website. Hopefully that means they are all sold out. Congrats on another success Lotrek. Can't wait to have these in hand for the holiday card playing season.
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by JacksandJokers »

Pablo393 wrote:Was thinking about picking up a few more decks, but it looks like they are no longer available on Lotrek's website. Hopefully that means they are all sold out.
Last check there were about 100 of each left.
This was a 3 day pre-order window so the decks would have been removed from sale regardless of if they sold out or not.
I'm sure anyone looking to pick up some extra decks will be able to do so at a future date. :D
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by pablo19 »

vasta41 wrote:
sms69x wrote:
vasta41 wrote:Prices for the decks aren't bad, price for shipping is. Are these coming from overseas? That could be the only thing I can think of that would cause US shipping to be $11 for both decks.
Of course these will be shipped from Greece.
But claiming $11 to ship 2 decks overseas is bad, well I never paid that low for 2 decks shipped from US with domestic shipping already included. So consider yourself very lucky...
Oh believe me- I do. If I lived overseas I'd have to find another hobby. I don't know how you guys do it on a regular basis!
I can't speak for others but it makes the hobby a lot "cheaper" for me. Since a lot of very nice decks have high shipping costs it makes it easier to pass on them. I would have gotten the las joker and thief deck from KS but the shipping costs were the same as a deck so... pass, and this has happened quite a lot lately. In the end it gets filtered down to very nice decks that have "reasonable" international shipping.
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by 4.of.Clubs »

pablo19 wrote: I can't speak for others but it makes the hobby a lot "cheaper" for me. Since a lot of very nice decks have high shipping costs it makes it easier to pass on them. I would have gotten the las joker and thief deck from KS but the shipping costs were the same as a deck so... pass, and this has happened quite a lot lately. In the end it gets filtered down to very nice decks that have "reasonable" international shipping.
Flights are cheap now due to cheap gas, I'd save all the shipping and just make a trip with an empty suitcase to fill up! That's what Sherman does - suitcases of decks when he comes back from China lol.
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

misterharmanko wrote:
Pablo393 wrote:Was thinking about picking up a few more decks, but it looks like they are no longer available on Lotrek's website. Hopefully that means they are all sold out.
Last check there were about 100 of each left.
This was a 3 day pre-order window so the decks would have been removed from sale regardless of if they sold out or not.
I'm sure anyone looking to pick up some extra decks will be able to do so at a future date. :D
You might be able to get them from UCdecksales.com - soon.
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by Justin O. »

Lotrek wrote: Details coming soon... ;)

Hey Lotrek,

Just saw your email about the printing registration issue, don't have Facebook but thought maybe a line of discussion could be opened here as well?
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by Bikefanatic »

I'll prefer centered backs with the non aligned fronts. During gameplay it won't be that noticeable since the art looks good.

If there's a pre-order, best if cards are already made.
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by vincero »

I pre-ordered 8 decks for the curiosity and rarity of the stock with the design highlighting a different border color for the backs. How does the new (non-rare) stock compare to the original printed stock?
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by jsantafe »

I didn't get the email (I ordered 3 decks), but saw it on Facebook thanks to another forum.

This is what I posted there:

"Ok, it's a serious bummer. One solution might be printing the correct deck in bronce, with its cool tuck, and cutting the faulty ones having an aligned back (really necessary for playability), put in a basic box and add it to the order. We would be getting two decks, the bronze only in perfect shape, and the faulty one so we can enjoy the praised bi-color stock. I feel only the bonze one is a serious downgrade from the product we ordered. I'm sorry if I sound harsh, I'm not mad at all, mistakes happen, I'm sorry for you, Lotrek, but this is what I feel get closer to fair in my opinion."
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by montecarlojoe »

Sounds a perfectly reasonable response to me jsantafe
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by vasta41 »

I understand that most (maybe?) people open and play with their cards. I guess that's what they're for after all, right? But I personally wouldn't be using such a rare deck to play anything. So while I agree that the way the cards printed is not functional for playing games, the reason these cards were made was to own a piece of history that no longer exists. If people feel it necessary to play poker with them, that's their prerogative. But the selling point for this deck wasn't for poker playing- it was for the stock. So my opinion is give the people what they payed for and let them play poker with another deck of cards. I can see it from both sides and either way sucks but I think the purpose of this deck is to admire the quality over the functionality. Not to mention, with all the reprints that Lotrek has gone through with almost all of his decks, people should just about expect the first version to be flawed (I hate to say this but it's hard to ignore).

As always, keep your head up, Lotrek! "You can't please everyone" but you always come damn close.
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by Justin O. »

I would also like the original stock, I already got a print of the decks he did on the copper stock and don't mind some missed registration as long as I'm not the only one with a bad deck, if the whole run is errored I am not getting the bad product, I'm getting one of the only thing that is available, unique, and rare. That said I also like jsantafe's solution to have a print run on alt stock that is not errored, but still provide the original version for people who want it
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by Lotrek »

I agree that no matter how you see it, it sucks. But the main purpose of the deck is for people to admire the printing technique which trully looks like something between printing and painting and also to get mesmerized by the play of light on the metallic stock. This purpose is perfectly served by the all bronze stock. The bi-color stock served me very well but it was not the main value of the deck. Besides, I intend to continue using metallic stocks and these will be of the same color on both sides.
In the end, I'm sure that all will say that the new print is better. I'll make some small changes that will add to the beauty of the deck.

@Vasta: I too expect my first print to have flaws. I'm doing this with printers that have excellent equipment and knowledge but no experience in playing card printing. So I must be constantly checking everything. It's very difficult and I'm sure I'll be failing sometimes.
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by Justin O. »

Lotrek wrote:I agree that no matter how you see it, it sucks. But the main purpose of the deck is for people to admire the printing technique which trully looks like something between printing and painting and also to get mesmerized by the play of light on the metallic stock. This purpose is perfectly served by the all bronze stock. The bi-color stock served me very well but it was not the main value of the deck. Besides, I intend to continue using metallic stocks and these will be of the same color on both sides.
In the end, I'm sure that all will say that the new print is better. I'll make some small changes that will add to the beauty of the deck.

@Vasta: I too expect my first print to have flaws. I'm doing this with printers that have excellent equipment and knowledge but no experience in playing card printing. So I must be constantly checking everything. It's very difficult and I'm sure I'll be failing sometimes.
What are you doing with the misprints on the unique stock? I am interested in those
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by jerichoholic »

Maybe you should stick to printing decks with actual card manufacturers.
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by 4.of.Clubs »

Lotrek wrote:I agree that no matter how you see it, it sucks. But the main purpose of the deck is for people to admire the printing technique which trully looks like something between printing and painting and also to get mesmerized by the play of light on the metallic stock. This purpose is perfectly served by the all bronze stock. The bi-color stock served me very well but it was not the main value of the deck.
I agree, but at least for me part of the reason I bought the deck is also because of the unique bi-color stock. It was also indeed part of the marketing/promotion we saw for the deck.
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by JacksandJokers »

This is probably not what most of you want to hear but thought I would offer up my opinion anyway:

I have always been a huge fan of Lotrek's work and delighted that he continues to push the boundaries of playing card production.
I understand that with this in mind mistakes will and do happen but I'm starting to get to the point now where I'm thinking "another errored deck, really?" This goes for numerous other projects I've backed as well not just Lotreks, and it really throws a downer on the whole playing card collecting business for me. I'm starting to agree with others who say the cards should be printed and be ready to ship before they are even advertised.

In this case, whilst I didn't back the deck particularly for the stock I do tend to only spend my hard money on decks that I truly like particularly if they are advertised as "limited editions".
What I don't want to see is a deck what was once only 300 in number printed and re-printed with different stocks, tucks, colors etc until there are so many versions on the market that their original limited edition status has pretty much become a joke.
If a deck is advertised as only being 300 in number that is what I would expect. So whilst most people will no doubt want a re-printed, perfectly aligned deck AND the errored deck. Personally I would prefer one or the other, either reprint and scrap the original print or send out the decks that were originally advertised.
I believe there were still about 100+ of each deck unsold, is it possible some of these cards could be exchanged for the really badly aligned ones?
Another solution, reprint the deck and send backers a couple of cards from the original print so they can see what the deck should/could have been like.
Anyway rant over. I'm sure Lotrek will make the best decision for all of us in the end.
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by RichK »

Justin O. wrote:
Lotrek wrote:I agree that no matter how you see it, it sucks. But the main purpose of the deck is for people to admire the printing technique which trully looks like something between printing and painting and also to get mesmerized by the play of light on the metallic stock. This purpose is perfectly served by the all bronze stock. The bi-color stock served me very well but it was not the main value of the deck. Besides, I intend to continue using metallic stocks and these will be of the same color on both sides.
In the end, I'm sure that all will say that the new print is better. I'll make some small changes that will add to the beauty of the deck.

@Vasta: I too expect my first print to have flaws. I'm doing this with printers that have excellent equipment and knowledge but no experience in playing card printing. So I must be constantly checking everything. It's very difficult and I'm sure I'll be failing sometimes.
What are you doing with the misprints on the unique stock? I am interested in those
I am too. I'm sure the bronze stock will be incredible but I'd like to see this bi-colored stock even if the face side isn't even. I open decks to look at the art, not play with. Blame JR's Fed 52 for my interest in cards now.

(You've read my opinion on FB Lotrek. (Pro error and bronze decks for all, more money if needed.))
Move on, nothing to see here.
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by Lotrek »

I have made some decisions that will be soon announced in my HMPC official thread but let me throw a few of them here:

I'll probably discontinue producing decks myself. Not completely but I'll be doing 1 deck per year and the print run will be 200 decks max. This way I'll be able to check literally each card.
When I'll be announcing a sale of a deck made by me you'll always know (and it will be clearly stated) that the deck is 100% ready to ship the next day.
When doing a KS I'll be using only one of the big companies. This way backers will know what to expect regarding production and I'll be relaxed as any potential issues won't be my job to fix.

I too want a limited deck to be limited. However I'm not a tycoon and I cannot always afford scrapping a whole print run. I did it once with Black Mass (which btw is very close to completion), I did it twice with ICONS but no matter how much I hate it, I often find myself in the need to sell at least some of the misprinted decks.
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by JacksandJokers »

Lotrek wrote:I have made some decisions that will be soon announced in my HMPC official thread but let me throw a few of them here:

I'll probably discontinue producing decks myself. Not completely but I'll be doing 1 deck per year and the print run will be 200 decks max. This way I'll be able to check literally each card.
When I'll be announcing a sale of a deck made by me you'll always know (and it will be clearly stated) that the deck is 100% ready to ship the next day.
When doing a KS I'll be using only one of the big companies. This way backers will know what to expect regarding production and I'll be relaxed as any potential issues won't be my job to fix.

I too want a limited deck to be limited. However I'm not a tycoon and I cannot always afford scrapping a whole print run. I did it once with Black Mass (which btw is very close to completion), I did it twice with ICONS but no matter how much I hate it, I often find myself in the need to sell at least some of the misprinted decks.
For one I think this is a step in the right direction Lotrek. No reason why you can't produce a deck yourself whilst also running a KS or two. Three decks per year?
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by guru »

Lotrek wrote:I have made some decisions that will be soon announced in my HMPC official thread but let me throw a few of them here:

I'll probably discontinue producing decks myself. Not completely but I'll be doing 1 deck per year and the print run will be 200 decks max. This way I'll be able to check literally each card.
When I'll be announcing a sale of a deck made by me you'll always know (and it will be clearly stated) that the deck is 100% ready to ship the next day.
When doing a KS I'll be using only one of the big companies. This way backers will know what to expect regarding production and I'll be relaxed as any potential issues won't be my job to fix.

I too want a limited deck to be limited. However I'm not a tycoon and I cannot always afford scrapping a whole print run. I did it once with Black Mass (which btw is very close to completion), I did it twice with ICONS but no matter how much I hate it, I often find myself in the need to sell at least some of the misprinted decks.
Hi Lotrek,

I admire your tenacity and look upto people like you who are ready to take this craft and field to an altogether different level even while facing huge risks. I always remember the #1 advice you gave me the other day on PM which I found counterintuitive but now I think it works.

Anyways, I know you've already worked with big printers, and working with them will give you a certain sense of satisfaction because the risk will be on to them and you know the quality standard you're going to get. That being said, I will be glad to see if you can partner with Guru Playing Card Company (GPCC) one day and get your decks produced. Apart from the Japanese quality standards that you can expect, another major factor to partner will be to shorten the lead time in producing the deck and getting it shipped way faster than what we see usually these days. GPCC is yet to produce and fulfill a deck so it is still a long way to go, and there are other things like website not ready, value proposition still in definition stage etc., but you're already aware of how things can go while working on such a major plan, so just wait n watch. Let me get this current Kickstarter go smooth and hope someday you will come to GPCC and collaborate on a deck.

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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by sms69x »

The way I see it:
If people want the misaligned deck then send it to them;
If people don't want it then refund them;
If there's enough demand, print a new run on the bronze stock, and still sell the remainding misaligned decks.

I think this way everybody wins, I don't see any need to destroy these decks to have them made again on a different stock. If you still want to produce the perfect deck, by all means do so, but make sure you have it done before collecting everybody's money, I'm getting tired of this errors and problems that delay and utterly change the deck I bought in the first place.
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by Lotrek »

sms69x wrote:but make sure you have it done before collecting everybody's money, I'm getting tired of this errors and problems that delay and utterly change the deck I bought in the first place.
TOTALLY AGREE. With one small objection: The changes on ICONS were for the better. The final product was enriched compared to the initially intented deck.
In any case, whatever comes from me in the future will be 100% finished and ready for shipment before it goes on sale. If you're getting tired of this, I'm already exhausted! For backers it's a disappointment, for me it's constant agony.
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards (wap)

Unread post by vincero »

I can echo some of our expectation as to have what was described in the pre-order- that is a quality deck with a rare stock. To this end, I see it fair to get both the misprinted decks for its rarity and the newer reprint of a similar improved design like the icons.
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by MagikFingerz »

sms69x wrote:The way I see it:
If people want the misaligned deck then send it to them;
If people don't want it then refund them;
If there's enough demand, print a new run on the bronze stock, and still sell the remainding misaligned decks.
This. Please.

The special stock may not have been the main selling point for you, Lotrek, but it was for many of us. Misalignment is not a big deal.
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Re: L I T U R G Y playing cards

Unread post by Stepchild »

MagikFingerz wrote:Misalignment is not a big deal.
Disagree strongly. Some of the card faces shown in the email to funders are really unacceptably off as far as I'm concerned.
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tdVZ1lokrRufRy1SZu-BdlsuqWWnVRcRGAPoVuUu-yImRvnNUkKsP1bj8dSVqZRQnh_xqPlKS14nA249Siy_DBF6jxE3uj5Ml1ud99cQFVM1PtcJZThGAnGFv6RPbqKwcZf92YPtx3rdOiXnoCMTz3uWkz8ywRGf643FO_YPJ7DIUeFw3fnErCK6Cz9d07Y=s0-d-e1-ft.jpg (48.32 KiB) Viewed 1668 times
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