Mana - Platinum/Gold/"Sybil" - SHIPPING

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Re: Mana - Gold / Silver Oracle EPCC Coming Soon to Kickstar

Unread post by Eoghann »

Nice. This is an elegant deck. :)
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Re: Mana - Gold / Silver Oracle EPCC Coming Soon to Kickstar

Unread post by Cbkimble »

I'm cutting way back on my purchases so I'll probably just pick up a single of each, maybe just the limited pair.
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Re: Mana - Gold / Silver Oracle EPCC Coming Soon to Kickstar

Unread post by Godzillian »

Mike Ratledge wrote:I'll have to revise my estimate for launch on these to be between the 3rd and 7th. Nice campaign, basically very much like Heretic - it's all about the cards and no add-ons except for a stretch goal to make a commemorative coin. There are some Early Bird tiers, but not a lot (well, enough).
Since it sounds like you know a little more about this campaign than most of us, do you happen to know the pricing for a deck? I'm really hoping it's not going to be stupid pricey like $20 or $18... :|
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Re: Mana - Gold / Silver Oracle EPCC Coming Soon to Kickstar

Unread post by chach »

The last Mana decks went for 10-12 CAD depending on early bird status. I'd assume somewhere in that range, but maybe a slight increase.
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Re: Mana - Gold / Silver Oracle EPCC Coming Soon to Kickstar

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

Godzillian wrote:
Mike Ratledge wrote:I'll have to revise my estimate for launch on these to be between the 3rd and 7th. Nice campaign, basically very much like Heretic - it's all about the cards and no add-ons except for a stretch goal to make a commemorative coin. There are some Early Bird tiers, but not a lot (well, enough).
Since it sounds like you know a little more about this campaign than most of us, do you happen to know the pricing for a deck? I'm really hoping it's not going to be stupid pricey like $20 or $18... :|
Those 1000 each numbered "Silver" and "Gold" Limited Edition Oracle decks are 20CAD or about $18.35 each, and the unlimited decks are 12CAD or about $11.11 - but there are 50 EB decks for $10CA which is about $9.75 each and a set of all three EB for 40CAD (US $36.50) as I recall. Those are delivered US prices.

I didn't ask permission to post this, so I'll let Erik detail the rest.
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Re: Mana - Gold / Silver Oracle EPCC Coming Soon to Kickstar

Unread post by Godzillian »

Mike Ratledge wrote:
Godzillian wrote:
Mike Ratledge wrote:I'll have to revise my estimate for launch on these to be between the 3rd and 7th. Nice campaign, basically very much like Heretic - it's all about the cards and no add-ons except for a stretch goal to make a commemorative coin. There are some Early Bird tiers, but not a lot (well, enough).
Since it sounds like you know a little more about this campaign than most of us, do you happen to know the pricing for a deck? I'm really hoping it's not going to be stupid pricey like $20 or $18... :|
Those 1000 each numbered "Silver" and "Gold" Limited Edition Oracle decks are 20CAD or about $18 each, and the unlimited decks are 13CAD or about $12.50 - but there are 50 EB decks for $10CA which is about $9.75 each and a set of all three EB for $40 as I recall. I didn't ask permission to post this, so I'll let Erik detail the rest.
Excellent. Thanks a lot for the information. There's no differences between Limited and Unlimited in design right? Just the tuck case is different.

Actually, looking at what Sher posted, looks like Unlimited won't have the Gold version!
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Re: Mana - Gold / Silver Oracle EPCC Coming Soon to Kickstar

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

Godzillian wrote:
Mike Ratledge wrote:
Godzillian wrote:Since it sounds like you know a little more about this campaign than most of us, do you happen to know the pricing for a deck? I'm really hoping it's not going to be stupid pricey like $20 or $18... :|
Those 1000 each numbered "Silver" and "Gold" Limited Edition Oracle decks are 20CAD or about $18 each, and the unlimited decks are 13CAD or about $12.50 - but there are 50 EB decks for $10CA which is about $9.75 each and a set of all three EB for $40 as I recall. I didn't ask permission to post this, so I'll let Erik detail the rest.
Excellent. Thanks a lot for the information. There's no differences between Limited and Unlimited in design right? Just the tuck case is different.

Actually, looking at what Sher posted, looks like Unlimited won't have the Gold version!
I do have permission now, so let's see:

Nope, Silver only in the unlimited: $11.11 US (12CAD) each unless you get there for the first 50 - one per customer "EB", those are $9.25 US (10CAD). These are "side-load" format.
Mana_#3_unlimited_$10.jpg
Mana_#3_unlimited_$10.jpg (102.35 KiB) Viewed 3290 times
The Oracle #3 Reserve (Silver and Gold, name to be revealed when it launches) are $18.3 US (20CAD). We were thinking maybe launch on the 3rd? They are already approved. You folks ready?
Mana_Oracle_#3_reserve.jpg
Mana_Oracle_#3_reserve.jpg (223.95 KiB) Viewed 3290 times
He's calling them Oracle #3 for now, but they are redesigned and significantly improved and there is a new name, but I can't say (yet).

A couple more pix:
O3.jpg
O3_reserve_1K.jpg
O3_reserve_1K.jpg (92.78 KiB) Viewed 3269 times
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Re: Mana - Gold / Silver Oracle EPCC Coming Soon to Kickstar

Unread post by charlie81dbz »

I managed to get a mixed brick from their last kickstarter and the decks are really beautiful (the backs are just so awesome). I hadn't seen their first deck in person until then. I'll definitely be pledging for these. And OMG it's about time someone made a black and SILVER deck. I know black and gold looks nice, but wow, everyone and their brother has a black and gold deck lately it seems. Plus I just like silver better. :D

charlie :)
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Re: Mana - Gold / Silver Oracle EPCC Coming Soon to Kickstar

Unread post by chach »

Sorry I may have missed it and I'm too lazy to check. Will these or sure be a marked deck?
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Re: Mana - Gold / Silver Oracle EPCC Coming Soon to Kickstar

Unread post by vasta41 »

So is the KS mainly for the silver deck, then you can add the gold as an addon? Or will there be combo pledges available for both? And if so, is the EB deal just for the silver or will there be one for the gold too?
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Re: Mana - Gold / Silver Oracle EPCC Coming Soon to Kickstar

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

chach wrote:Sorry I may have missed it and I'm too lazy to check. Will these or sure be a marked deck?
No, they are not at all. Too much controversy over the previous deck and people just won't use a marked deck to play poker. Excellent for magicians of course, and Erik is a magician. I don't think it was his intention to make it unusable and to me the marking was so obscure it didn't matter - but.

These are NOT marked!
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Re: Mana - Gold / Silver Oracle EPCC Coming Soon to Kickstar

Unread post by sinjin7 »

I always felt the original Mana decks were one of the most beautiful decks ever produced, but it was greatly underrated for a couple of reasons. First of all, it wasn't released domestically in the U.S. But the biggest reason was that the release of the Mana deck was over-shadowed by the release of Alex Chin's Seasons decks. The Zinfandel and Indigo decks were really nice and I appreciated the fact that Erik went fully custom with his second editions, but I still like the original version better.

I don't like the fact Erik is breaking the continuity of the series by switching from the USPCC over to the Taiwanese/Chinese printers, plus I really hate that side load tuck box (why can't they just glue to bottom flaps to solve the issue of the cards getting hung up/damaged when putting them back into the box?). I do love the gold version and at least those won't be side load tucks. This won't be one of those situations where you have a super nice tuck box but are disappointed by the cards inside.
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Re: Mana - Gold / Silver Oracle EPCC Coming Soon to Kickstar

Unread post by chach »

Mike Ratledge wrote:
chach wrote:Sorry I may have missed it and I'm too lazy to check. Will these or sure be a marked deck?
No, they are not at all. Too much controversy over the previous deck and people just won't use a marked deck to play poker. Excellent for magicians of course, and Erik is a magician. I don't think it was his intention to make it unusable and to me the marking was so obscure it didn't matter - but.

These are NOT marked!
That's excellent news!! I love the mana cards as much as the next guy, but the only reason we (my friends and family, or framily I guess if you follow the commercials) haven't used them in our regular games is because I pointed out they were marked. Everyone loved them til I did that.
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Re: Mana - Gold / Silver Oracle EPCC Coming Soon to Kickstar

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

sinjin7 wrote:I always felt the original Mana decks were one of the most beautiful decks ever produced, but it was greatly underrated for a couple of reasons. First of all, it wasn't released domestically in the U.S. But the biggest reason was that the release of the Mana deck was over-shadowed by the release of Alex Chin's Seasons decks. The Zinfandel and Indigo decks were really nice and I appreciated the fact that Erik went fully custom with his second editions, but I still like the original version better.

I don't like the fact Erik is breaking the continuity of the series by switching from the USPCC over to the Taiwanese/Chinese printers, plus I really hate that side load tuck box (why can't they just glue to bottom flaps to solve the issue of the cards getting hung up/damaged when putting them back into the box?). I do love the gold version and at least those won't be side load tucks. This won't be one of those situations where you have a super nice tuck box but are disappointed by the cards inside.
Sinjin, just like the old Oldsmobile ads said: these are not your father's playing card decks. The Expert quality is WAY up over the past year. Heck, even the decks from MPC with their new paper stock (really nice French 310gsm linen finish made by Arjowiggins - same company used by Expert and USPCC amongst others to supply some of their paper) and even I was shocked to have to admit that right out of the box they are excellent feel and quality - to the point that we have to remember "Bicycle" just upgraded their stock without much fanfare a few months back - to keep ahead of the Joneses, as we say. Are they the same? Certainly not. Are the better to the point where I could hand you all three blindfolded and you could not possibly tell between them (and there is no smell any more) - absolutely. They all have that 'springy' quality that the traditional 'magic finish' / "air cushion" / etc (all the same, actually) decks we have loved for ages have. You can take a deck of MPC cards and if you're not careful they will fly out of your hand just like a brand new USPCC deck always has, same thing with the latest stock and finish from Expert/Legends. Are they made in the USA? Nope, they're not. Are the absolutely impeccable quality? They certainly are. If you had three decks all the same made by each company and randomized the tucks you put them in could you tell them apart? Not any more you can't.

I couldn't say that a year ago, in fact I couldn't say that even 6 months or 3 months ago, but I can assure you - there is no difference and in fact the cards made by Expert and MPC are better in that they don't have the registration 'drift' problem seen in almost all of the recent USPCC-made decks. There's not a whole lot they can do about that. When you have roll-fed Heidelberg presses that can pump out a million decks in a single 24-hour period registration is always going to be an issue. Sheet fed digital Heidelberg presses - not so much, in fact not at all, and those printed by the HP Indigo printing press aren't subject to ANY registration nor alignment issues at all either.

We're working with Arjowiggins and Metsabord GMbH to identify a perfect high gloss/shine high brightness perfect texture casino grade paper stock for the Chromografix decks. It's not an easy task, since it comes down to those aspects plus the amount of moisture in the paper and a whole lot of other things. I was leaning towards a Chromalux Digital 800 paper that's 330gsm, but I found a 350gsm paper that perfect, not too stiff, not too flexible from Arjowiggins that might be the ticket. Time will tell. Chromalux is made by Metabord, formerly Zander, the same company that printed the first 12-color decks that were never sold to the public but only used as salesmans samples, maybe 1000 decks total over about a 10-years period after consulting with the current VP at Metabord who was there in the 60's. Dr Zander made them simply to show off his "Fine Papers" and the quality of cards that could be made with them. We have to remember that Dondorf bit the bullet trying to do a 28-stone deck (16-color faces with 12-color backs) and never recovered. After being in business for over 100 years these "centennial" decks sent them into bankruptcy and A.S. Spilekarten ended up with them and eventually stopped using the name and it became just another part of "A.S.S." which is still in business today. Spielkartenfabrik Altenburg GmbH is still right there in Altenburg Germany.

If you have a deck of Lotrek's Venexiana Gold you'll find those are a 330gsm French casino grade paper stock that is a perfect balance of springy and flexible but still not stiff, and those are just the best decks I have ever held in my hand - and they aren't intended to be anything but looked at, frankly. You could easily play a game with them, but I suppose it's not the best plan, since they average out to around $1.85 per card - or $1.66 if you bought them here on UC. They - being the world's first fully foiled back card made are well worth it.
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Re: Mana - Gold / Silver Oracle EPCC Coming Soon to Kickstar

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

OK, one more pix of the silver reserve O3 deck:
O3_silver_reserve.jpg
I might have already said, but the launch date is now confirmed to be August 6th. I'll know the time soon, and post it here. Erik and I are conspiring to tease it a bit before he launches, and he's already built the basics of the page and tiers on KS, and I have access to a group of pix that haven't been shown yet, so I'll post a few more as the days go by.
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Re: Mana - Gold / Silver Oracle EPCC Coming Soon to Kickstar

Unread post by sinjin7 »

Mike, I'm really trying not to pull a "CBJ" here. Really, I'm not, but you have to stop talking about Chromografix, CL, or any of your other ventures on someone else's thread. Start your own thread and we'll be more than happy to discuss it there. Your M.O. seems to be posting a comment marginally related to the particular thread, and then you go off on a wild, unrelated, random tangent talking up one of your many other business ventures. Usually in a very wordy fashion. I'm really trying to be helpful here, please show some restraint.

As to your comments about the improved finish of the Asian companies, its true, they've improved. But I guarantee you that I absolutely can tell the difference between them and USPCC decks blindfolded. I say this with all due respect, but forgive me for not putting much weight in your opinion of finish. You're a collector, a passionate one at that, but you're no cardist or magician. You proclaimed just a couple of months ago that the earlier EPCC/LPCC decks "fanned like butter." Please. Enough said.

I'm glad we have a confirmed launch date of August 6, I'll definitely be looking forward to it and marking my calendar. I expect these will fund very quickly. I look forward to getting these and directly comparing the to Erik's earlier USPCC produced decks as well.
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Re: Mana - Gold / Silver Oracle EPCC Coming Soon to Kickstar

Unread post by Mirror »

sinjin7 wrote:As to your comments about the improved finish of the Asian companies, its true, they've improved. But I guarantee you that I absolutely can tell the difference between them and USPCC decks blindfolded. I say this with all due respect, but forgive me for not putting much weight in your opinion of finish. You're a collector, a passionate one at that, but you're no cardist or magician. You proclaimed just a couple of months ago that the earlier EPCC/LPCC decks "fanned like butter." Please. Enough said.

I'm glad we have a confirmed launch date of August 6, I'll definitely be looking forward to it and marking my calendar. I expect these will fund very quickly. I look forward to getting these and directly comparing the to Erik's earlier USPCC produced decks as well.

I might have said this in a different thread already, I'm not sure, but while I don't have any decks from EPCC yet, I heard a lot of cardists (Franky Morales was one, you might know him) praising the quality of EPCC decks, especially for card flourishing. I'll have to get some of their decks before making an opinion for myself though.
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Re: Mana - Gold / Silver Oracle EPCC Coming Soon to Kickstar

Unread post by sinjin7 »

Mirror, you definitely have enough cardistry chops to be able to appreciate the difference between the Asian decks versus the USPCC. Their stock is great, and like I said, their finish is improving. But you'll definitely notice a slight drag when you fan or spread the decks. This results in some clumpiness that make my fans a bit uneven. I'm surprised you don't have any of the EPCC or LPCC decks that have used these Asian manufacturers yet.

Once I get these new Mana decks, I'm going to test them against those earlier Asian produced decks like the Exquisite deck or the Black Legends to see the degree of improvement.
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Re: Mana - Gold / Silver Oracle EPCC Coming Soon to Kickstar

Unread post by Mirror »

sinjin7 wrote:Mirror, you definitely have enough cardistry chops to be able to appreciate the difference between the Asian decks versus the USPCC. Their stock is great, and like I said, their finish is improving. But you'll definitely notice a slight drag when you fan or spread the decks. This results in some clumpiness that make my fans a bit uneven. I'm surprised you don't have any of the EPCC or LPCC decks that have used these Asian manufacturers yet.

Once I get these new Mana decks, I'm going to test them against those earlier Asian produced decks like the Exquisite deck or the Black Legends to see the degree of improvement.
What I do have are a few MPC decks. I have to say that I'm really happy with them. While you're definitely right about the fanning, which isn't the best (thumb fans are difficult, pressure fans are alright) I still like them for flourishing, probably because I don't fan that much when doing cardistry. While they feel different from USPCC decks I personally wouldn't say they're worse, as long as fanning isn't your top priority (powder helps, but I don't like the way cards feel after powdering so I only use it if a deck is at the brink of being unusably or to try it out on a new finish, which is what I did on one of my MPC decks).

About the EPCC decks: I'm trying to get my hands on some Exquisite Bolds. To get back on topic, I'll try to get some of these new Mana's as well, especially since I missed v1 and I didn't really like v2 so I passed on them. These look great, it's my chance to get some.
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Re: Mana - Gold / Silver "Sybil" EPCC Coming Soon to Kicksta

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

This was supposed to be a coordinated attack, but Tony got the jump on me on Kardify.

In any case, I can now reveal that the actual name of these decks is "Sybil".

More news at 11, as they say...
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Re: Mana - Gold / Silver "Sybil" EPCC Coming Soon to Kicksta

Unread post by msp062 »

The article on Kardify today is a great one. Its worth the read. August 6th is the Kickstarter date for Sybil.
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Re: Mana - Gold / Silver "Sybil" EPCC Coming Soon to Kicksta

Unread post by Sparkz »

msp062 wrote:The article on Kardify today is a great one. Its worth the read. August 6th is the Kickstarter date for Sybil.
Thanks msp, Erik is great to work with and we want to support him in any way we can.
This was supposed to be a coordinated attack, but Tony got the jump on me on Kardify.
LOL, when did this become war?

Listen, Erik and Kardify were working on this, Erik supplied everything to us, he asked for the piece to be posted before the weekend, I notified Erik last night that we would be posting the finished piece this morning and his banner on Friday, I know your on the Sybil Team Mike, but we're here for Erik and to help him promote himself and his work.

Erik did a fantastic job giving well thought out answers to his questions, if you haven't read it, you can check it out on Kardify.com
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Re: Mana - Gold / Silver "Sybil" EPCC Coming Soon to Kicksta

Unread post by Sher »

Great read. :) I really liked the part explaining the story behind the deck's name, Sybil.
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Re: Mana - Gold / Silver "Sybil" EPCC Coming Soon to Kicksta

Unread post by Norbie »

Sybil ..... The name just doesn't have the classiness that the look of the deck has.

Or maybe is just me and being Australian .... That name has a bit of a history.
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Re: Mana - Gold / Silver "Sybil" EPCC Coming Soon to Kicksta

Unread post by montecarlojoe »

Have to say - the decks look lovely but the name makes me think of Prunella Scales shouting at John Cleese every time!

Image
BAZIL!
(Though I do get that the Sybils were essentially the Oracles, or agents of such, in Greek Mythology)
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Re: Mana - Gold / Silver "Sybil" EPCC Coming Soon to Kicksta

Unread post by MagikFingerz »

I just think of the flourish :roll:
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Re: Mana - Gold / Silver "Sybil" EPCC Coming Soon to Kicksta

Unread post by volantangel »

I just think of how much im going to spend :? :?
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Re: Mana - Gold / Silver "Sybil" EPCC Coming Soon to Kicksta

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

Sparkz wrote:
Mike Ratledge wrote:This was supposed to be a coordinated attack, but Tony got the jump on me on Kardify.
LOL, when did this become war?
Oh, it's not, Tony! I just hoped I would get a heads-up before you published so I would know when it was OK for me to detail things like the real name of the decks, etc.

Excellent article, as always!
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Re: Mana - Gold / Silver "Sybil" EPCC Coming Soon to Kicksta

Unread post by sinjin7 »

I'm hoping the limited versions aren't going to cost an arm and a leg. I've got enough of the original Mana Oracle decks still left so I don't think I'm picking up a brick of the regular silver editions, maybe just a couple for the collection (plus did I mention that I really hate those side tucks?) What I'm really looking forward to is picking up some of the limited Gold versions. C'mon, Erik, don't make me have to refer to your decks as the $ybil deck$. :lol:
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Re: Mana - Gold / Silver "Sybil" EPCC Coming Soon to Kicksta

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

OK, it's official: 3PM EDT/NYC time on Wednesday, August 6th: the Mana "Sybil" decks will go 'live' on KS:
KS_Launch1.jpg
>Mike<
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself"
They say "Ignorance is bliss". Obviously, some people are much happier than others...

Members are encouraged to
Show Us Your Cards!


Our UC2021 Decks entitled
"Odd Fellows"
by Lorenzo Gaggiotti / @Stockholm17
Coming soon: AKA
«Eighth Annual Decks»


UC members help maintain Portfolio52
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Contact ecNate for details and access


UC2019 "Seventh Annual Decks"
by Montenzi Design
Funded 207% on KS: HERE


>>> UC Deck Sales <<<


Insert disclaimer here...
All information posted as fact is accurate at the time of posting to the best of my knowledge.
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