Origins Playing Cards KS - Funded!

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Re: Origins Playing Cards KS - Funded!

Unread postby montecarlojoe » Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:43 pm  

You can also use XE.com for historical rates
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Re: Origins Playing Cards KS - Funded!

Unread postby DukeBoy » Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:52 am  

In the comments section
Rick wrote:Also for those with an interest, I'm considering having the cards cut traditionally, which means they'll be flipped over.

Does anyone here know what that means?
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Re: Origins Playing Cards KS - Funded!

Unread postby MagikFingerz » Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:38 am  

I can never remember which is which, but if standard cut is done from face to back (meaning the sheets are face up when being cut), then "traditionally cut" would be the opposite (sheets face down). This has implications for which way the cards faro most easily, something primarily gamblers and other similar card handlers are concerned with (traditionally cut cards are better for table faros).
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Re: Origins Playing Cards KS - Funded!

Unread postby sinjin7 » Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:22 pm  

Magik, your example is reversed. A traditionally cut deck will be cut face to back. This means the uncut sheets will be stacked face up and the cutting blade will come down onto the faces and through to the back. Card mechanics who perform gambling sleights definitely prefer a traditional cut.

Back in the day, the only way the USPCC cut their decks was face up for the traditional cut. Then for some reason, about 25 to 30 years ago, the USPCC flipped their uncut sheets over so that the face is down and the back design is on top for the cutting blade. Maybe it helped with alignment and registration, I don't know. There's no cost difference in either method. I think the standard now is still non-traditional, but I've seen a trend from the Kentucky plant to occasionally go with a traditional cut sometimes, it almost seems random. The only way to make sure your decks are cut traditionally is to specifically request it.

Most people will never know the difference (collectors for the most part don't have a clue about the actual physical characteristics of the cards, magicians usually won't have a preference, only cardists who like to faro a lot want to know which direction will be easier to faro). I think card mechanics are the only ones who really care. If this is the case, then I think you should always go with a traditional cut to make as many people happy as possible.
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Re: Origins Playing Cards KS - Funded!

Unread postby Eoghann » Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:38 pm  

That's interesting, I always get confused as well.

You know that reminds me of something. Sometimes when I open a brand new deck, the back of the cards are hunched up. I guess that's non traditional cut indicator?
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Re: Origins Playing Cards KS - Funded!

Unread postby sinjin7 » Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:47 pm  

If the blades are sharp, you shouldn't be able to visually tell easily if a deck is cut traditionally or non-traditionally. You almost need a magnifying glass to see the subtle differences in the cut angles on the edges of the cards. If your card backs are hunched up, you may have different manufacturing issues going on!
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Re: Origins Playing Cards KS - Funded!

Unread postby MagikFingerz » Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:49 pm  

Like I said, I can never remember :ugthink: Thanks for the correction, sinjin!
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Re: Origins Playing Cards KS - Funded!

Unread postby Mike Ratledge » Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:09 pm  

Eoghann wrote:That's interesting, I always get confused as well.

You know that reminds me of something. Sometimes when I open a brand new deck, the back of the cards are hunched up. I guess that's non traditional cut indicator?

Yep, precisely! Think about it: the edges were smacked with the blades while face down, thus the crimped down edges. If they had been cut face up, the crimp would be facing the opposite way or with the flexed faces upward instead and edges towards you (well, perspective is everything, but I'm sure you get what I'm saying).
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Re: Origins Playing Cards KS - Funded!

Unread postby Bikefanatic » Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:35 pm  

I see what ya'll saying about people wouldn't know the different. On the stripper machines at USPCC, the uncut sheets were faced up. After the sheets are cut into strips, I don't know the process afterwards.
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Re: Origins Playing Cards KS - Funded!

Unread postby Don Boyer » Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:38 am  

Bikefanatic wrote:I see what ya'll saying about people wouldn't know the different. On the stripper machines at USPCC, the uncut sheets were faced up. After the sheets are cut into strips, I don't know the process afterwards.


They're moved to the cutting dies. The cards are cut individually in separate dies for a clean cut, and the cards are pressed down into the die to make the cut. A "face down" cut is the traditional cut, when the card is facing the sharp edges of the die when it's cut from the strip. A "face up" cut is the modern cut, where it's the back of the card that hits the die first.

Traditional cuts are better for shuffling, but (or so goes the rumor) the modern cut was developed as a time-saving measure in card manufacturing - the uncut sheet needs to be flipped between printing and cutting to make the traditional cut, while this isn't necessary (and thus eliminates a step) for the modern cut.

I always wondered about this. Seriously, what if I ordered a deck where the "faces" were all card backs and the "backs" were all card faces? I'd have a traditionally cut deck without having to flip paper anywhere, right? It doesn't seem to make sense about this whole extra step of flipping the uncut sheet. But don't look at me, that's just how USPC does things...
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Re: Origins Playing Cards KS - Funded!

Unread postby Sher » Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:19 am  

Okay guys, I'm confused.

sinjin7 wrote:Magik, your example is reversed. A traditionally cut deck will be cut face to back. This means the uncut sheets will be stacked face up and the cutting blade will come down onto the faces and through to the back. Card mechanics who perform gambling sleights definitely prefer a traditional cut.


From this, what I'm getting is that traditionally cut = face up, blades come down and cut face first.

Don Boyer wrote:A "face down" cut is the traditional cut, when the card is facing the sharp edges of the die when it's cut from the strip. A "face up" cut is the modern cut, where it's the back of the card that hits the die first.


From this, traditionally cut = face down, with the blade coming from below and pushing up to cut face first.

Discrepancy between face up and face down, but consensus on traditional having the blade cut face first.
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Re: Origins Playing Cards KS - Funded!

Unread postby Mike Ratledge » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:11 am  

I'm a bit confused too, Shermaine. From what Don posted I am assuming that the blades are beneath the surface? Always thought it was opposite. He makes a good point about them just printing faces on the back and vice versa if they wanted to reproduce the old style without adding a flip to the process.
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Re: Origins Playing Cards KS - Funded!

Unread postby sinjin7 » Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:24 pm  

I'll try to clear up any confusion.

Every deck of cards starts off by being a part of a giant roll of paper stock that has over 10 thousand decks printed on each roll. After this printing, there are actually 3 cutting process, with only the final cutting process that really matters.

The first cut is where the roll is cut into large squares that contain all the cards for one deck - this is your standard uncut sheet (that most people grossly overcharge for). In my earlier post, I was talking about this first cut for some reason, but now that I think about it, I realize this cut has nothing to do with traditional or non-traditional cutting because the actual edges of the cards aren't made in this step.

The second cut is where stacks of uncut sheets are cut into strips that hold a single row of cards. The first and second cuts are rough cuts that don't involve the actual edges of the playing cards. It doesn't matter if there is a giant blade that comes down or goes up through the card stock, or if they're torn by hand for that matter.

The third and final cut is where all the difference is made. Each card is individually cut from the strips. I've seen this process and I'm not sure what the exact orientation of the stock is at the time of actual cutting, it may even be vertical. All I know is the strips are fed through the cutting machine and get cut at some point as it winds through the machine.

The key is regardless of which direction the blade comes down or up on the cutting die, or which way the strip of stock is facing, if the blade goes through the card from the face first and out through the back, then you have a traditionally cut deck.
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Re: Origins Playing Cards KS - Funded!

Unread postby Cbkimble » Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:14 am  

Thought I'd share this update I received this morning.

Hi,

I hope your week has begun well. I wanted to update you on progress with production of the Origins First Edition and Grail Limited Edition decks.

You may already know by updates on the Kickstarter page, that the USPCC has had a huge workload and there has been a delay on completion of the Origins. I apologise for the time i'ts taken. The good news is that the Grails are complete and the Firsts are due within days. I am confident we will be shipping shortly.

Thank you very much for your support over the course of the campaign. I will be in touch when the packs begin shipping.

Looks like we'll be getting these pretty soon.
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Re: Origins Playing Cards KS - Funded!

Unread postby PlayingCardz » Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:56 am  

Cbkimble wrote:Thought I'd share this update I received this morning.

Hi,

I hope your week has begun well. I wanted to update you on progress with production of the Origins First Edition and Grail Limited Edition decks.

You may already know by updates on the Kickstarter page, that the USPCC has had a huge workload and there has been a delay on completion of the Origins. I apologise for the time i'ts taken. The good news is that the Grails are complete and the Firsts are due within days. I am confident we will be shipping shortly.

Thank you very much for your support over the course of the campaign. I will be in touch when the packs begin shipping.

Looks like we'll be getting these pretty soon.


It's about time, what a letdown form USPCC this time around! Anyway, gratz Rick and good luck in packing all the orders ;)
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Re: Origins Playing Cards KS - Funded!

Unread postby sinjin7 » Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:10 pm  

One of the mysteries of Kickstarter for me was how this deck didn't exceed $100,000 in funding. I put this deck on par with Alex Chin's Primavera & Seronda decks, which is high praise indeed. From the glimpse of the tuck box I got in my email today, I'm really happy this project is so close to being fulfilled. I have a feeling once people get these in their hands and word gets out on how beautiful this deck is, Rick is going to enjoy robust post-KS sales.
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Re: Origins Playing Cards KS - Funded!

Unread postby Cbkimble » Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:15 pm  

sinjin7 wrote:One of the mysteries of Kickstarter for me was how this deck didn't exceed $100,000 in funding. I put this deck on par with Alex Chin's Primavera & Seronda decks, which is high praise indeed. From the glimpse of the tuck box I got in my email today, I'm really happy this project is so close to being fulfilled. I have a feeling once people get these in their hands and word gets out on how beautiful this deck is, Rick is going to enjoy robust post-KS sales.


I agree. It's a beautiful deck and I'm sure he'll get plenty of hits to make more, but I don't think it'll be soon. Seems like this whole process has had a negative effect on Rick. If it had had the Bicycle logo and had been in US dollars instead of NZ dollars, it might've cleared 100k.
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Re: Origins Playing Cards KS - Funded!

Unread postby ecNate » Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:16 pm  

sinjin7 wrote:One of the mysteries of Kickstarter for me was how this deck didn't exceed $100,000 in funding. I put this deck on par with Alex Chin's Primavera & Seronda decks, which is high praise indeed. From the glimpse of the tuck box I got in my email today, I'm really happy this project is so close to being fulfilled. I have a feeling once people get these in their hands and word gets out on how beautiful this deck is, Rick is going to enjoy robust post-KS sales.



Totally agree, it's a top 10 easily without even having it in hand. In fact right up there with Reserve Note which is my favorite non transformation deck. I'm just sad I didn't get more, I'll likely be a post KS buyer as well!
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Re: Origins Playing Cards KS - Funded!

Unread postby PlayingCardz » Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:26 pm  

We agree one hundred percent, we think it is one of the best KS funded deck of cards ever! :drool:

Why it did not go beyond $100K, here are our 2 cents about that :

- Maybe a bit too expensive (although INT shipping was fairly priced)
- It was in NZD, some people wrongfully thinks it is a dealbreaker
- Decks add ons could have been better
- Highest tier at $220 NZD, some wealthy people like to support projects by getting crazy expensive tiers
- It did not unfortunatly gets the buzz some other project gets

But on the good side, the teasing, marketing was top notch, Rick looks like a great guy that won't settle for anything but perfection.
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Re: Origins Playing Cards KS - Funded!

Unread postby Godzillian » Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:40 pm  

I didn't pledge for this. Let me explain why.

For me, the theme is a huge thing. The importance of theme is on par with the artwork, and sometimes it's even more important. When you say this deck harkens back to the 16th century, that means nothing to me. I never lived in the 16th century, and it seems more abstract and foreign than more recent decades, such as the 80s or 90s.

That is the biggest reason why I didn't pledge for this. The price point + theme = a non-pledger. I could pay $12.50 for a 16th century themed deck that I don't completely understand, or I could spend more on the Requiem KS, which is a theme I can understand and can actually relate to.

In response to PlayingCardz...

PlayingCardz wrote:- Maybe a bit too expensive (although INT shipping was fairly priced)Price is fine. $15/deck is standard for international backers.[/color]
- It was in NZD, some people wrongfully thinks it is a dealbreaker Definitely wasn't a dealbreaker for me.
- Decks add ons could have been better I think there were too many add-ons available. T-shirts, coins... they're all bleh to me. Coins and artbooks were fine, but the T-shirts and postcard were a little bit much.
- Highest tier at $220 NZD, some wealthy people like to support projects by getting crazy expensive tiers This is actually a good point.
- It did not unfortunatly gets the buzz some other project gets Personally, I think this has to do with the theme.


Of course, I'm only one non-pledger. I was really interested in this deck in the beginning, because I really liked the artwork. Then I lost touch with this deck. For me, even if the artwork is fantastic, the lack of a relateable theme is a big negative.

I hope Rick comes out with more ideas, because I really do like his artwork. I just hope his next theme is something that more people can get behind.
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