Alice of Wonderland Playing Cards now live on Kickstarter

[Verloren]

Talked to Juan and seems that he is trying to find some way to reduce the international shipping cost by 20%!!! Don't know if he'll be able to do so, but I really hope he does!

Oh boy. My wallet's gonna hate me a lot if this comes true.

[Eoghann]

How come some decks require so much yet some so little? Is it based on how many are being printed? I hate to be pessimistic but having 7 days left and $ 8500+ behind the nearly $20,000 goal requires nothing short of a miracle. Such a shame. Perhaps next time around it can be a more limited release and include branded decks. I personally prefer branded. Are branded less costly than unbranded or is it the other way around?

[th4mo]

More experienced users will correct me if i am wrong, but i believe it does cost extra to add the "bicycle" branding. However, it seems that a lot of collectors won't buy them unless they are branded, so you may get more backers with a branded deck, and that may make up for the added cost. Of course, if your deck isn't good enough to begin with, branding won't make the difference.

[Eoghann]

Interesting. I would have assumed it'd be cheaper. But I guess USPCC is such a powerful and trusted brand that having its name on a product benefits the artist more than it benefits them.

[Gareth]

Unfortunately not - USPCC charges extra (and have a whole pile of restrictions) to have a Bicycle logo on the deck. As mentioned that the 'trusted' brand helps sell the decks, and USPCC is happy to take some commission

The thing about this campaign is that it's actually for 2 decks, hence the cost is .... approximately twice as much.

[Brillig]

Troubled times for this project - apparently USPCC is balking at printing it due to copyright issues, so it's either a) De-"Alice" the art or b) print with Cartamundi.

[MagikFingerz]

Troubled times for this project - apparently USPCC is balking at printing it due to copyright issues, so it's either a) De-"Alice" the art or b) print with Cartamundi.

Wow. This is why people needs to get their designs approved BEFORE launching a kickstarter project!

If those really are the only options, my vote would go for Cartamundi as the artwork was the primary reason I backed it. BUT, in either case I expect a partial refund since we are not getting what we initially paid for.

As someone on KS pointed out, what makes this raise copyright issue flags that the "White Rabbit" deck managed to avoid?

[flyers3003]

Not happy about this. Especially since it looks like he's going to go with Cartamundi. That is not what I agreed to.

[Brillig]

As someone on KS pointed out, what makes this raise copyright issue flags that the "White Rabbit" deck managed to avoid?

It's always possible that the USPCC got into trouble *after* White Rabbit was printed, I suppose.

I know nothing about Cartamundi cards - are they really that bad?

[MagikFingerz]

As someone on KS pointed out, what makes this raise copyright issue flags that the "White Rabbit" deck managed to avoid?

It's always possible that the USPCC got into trouble *after* White Rabbit was printed, I suppose.

I know nothing about Cartamundi cards - are they really that bad?

Depends on who you ask, I guess. They've got nothing on USPCC though, that much is certain.

[DragonSoul]

I don't understand this. Is he saying that USPCC has some sort of contract with Disney about what they can and can not print when it comes to anything that might be Disney related? Is it something new or different than what was in place when the White Rabbit deck was printed? Because I see nothing in the artwork that relates specifically to anything Disney has done. And how can Cartamundi print these without worrying about stepping on anyone's toes? But most importantly, how can this issue not have been discussed before this finished funding?

[Brillig]

I am not a copyright attorney. That said, my understanding of how these things works is something like this.

USPCC prints White Rabbit
Disney lawyers notice, send USPCC a Cease and Desist letter
USPCC says 'Ok, we won't print any more Alice related material'

Thus, USPCC can't print the Alice deck. However, since Cartamundi has not received a C&D letter, they can still print. Presumably, they will receive one shortly after the Alice deck is printed and distributed.

[Eoghann]

I am not a copyright attorney. That said, my understanding of how these things works is something like this.

USPCC prints White Rabbit
Disney lawyers notice, send USPCC a Cease and Desist letter
USPCC says 'Ok, we won't print any more Alice related material'

Thus, USPCC can't print the Alice deck. However, since Cartamundi has not received a C&D letter, they can still print. Presumably, they will receive one shortly after the Alice deck is printed and distributed.

Alice in Wonderland/Through the Looking Glass is public domain as far as I know. I'm pretty sure the problem resides on the fact that the characters' colors and depiction are based on Disney. The Chesire Cat isn't described as a purple and pink cat in the book, however Disney depicts it that way. Juan's cat is very similar to that. He might be able to get away with it if he recolors some of them and distances them as much from Disney as possible.

[Brillig]

In case anyone missed it, he has offered to refund people who wish to withdraw. So while it is disappointing, and perhaps poor planning, he is trying to do the right thing.

[Sharpie]

I'm totally baffled by this. Alice's Adventures in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass are both Lewis Carroll books that are in the public domain. Anyone can use them.

If, however, there is something in these decks that specifically references the Disney version, then there's a problem.
Perhaps Disney's title "Alice in Wonderland" was too close to "Alice of Wonderland"

I feel like sometimes the USPCC plays it too safe. Like they don't want offend the giant that is Disney, over something that is not even infringing on their copyright. So they don't look like they're letting someone slip one by their legal department, and thereby drive big businesses away.

Rant over. Le sigh.

[Verloren]

I am not a copyright attorney. That said, my understanding of how these things works is something like this.

USPCC prints White Rabbit
Disney lawyers notice, send USPCC a Cease and Desist letter
USPCC says 'Ok, we won't print any more Alice related material'

Thus, USPCC can't print the Alice deck. However, since Cartamundi has not received a C&D letter, they can still print. Presumably, they will receive one shortly after the Alice deck is printed and distributed.

I don't think there is a C&D letter from Disney. Albino Dragon is going through a v2 printing of the White Rabbit deck, and there hasn't been any word from them on being unable to go through their deck again.

[montecarlojoe]

I feel like sometimes the USPCC plays it too safe.

This.

There was a similar problem witht the Four Horsemen deck. Originally USPCC stated that they would not print the Lamb of God on the joker as it was a satanic symbol because it represents jebus bowing down to satan.

When it was pointed out that:

A: No it flipping doesn't, try reading Revelations.
and
B: The four horsemen arguably ARE satanic symbols though...

... they changed their minds.

[MagikFingerz]

Well, it's going to be printed by Cartamundi. Backerkit invites have been sent out.

The creator also added "Steampunk" to the title, as well as modify the Cheshire Cat artwork, to prevent future problems.

[flyers3003]

To Juan's credit, he did give me a refund.

[vmagic]

Well I just got these and as nice as they look they didn't get embossed finish for some unknown reason nor metallic inks on the tuck boxes, oh well. Just somewhat disappointed. I had no problem changing to Cartamundi but I expected a somewhat comparable product or at least finish/stock, not this. Also disappointed that some of the cards came with chipping on the borders right out of the box, haven't seen that before.

[th4mo]

Four months past the delivery date and many (most?) backers, including myself, still have not received their decks...

He's selling them on his website as "Highly Collectable" (maybe because hundreds of backers are still waiting for their decks?)...
http://aliceofwonderland.com/product/al ... ing-cards/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And he's got a new project underway on Indiegogo (trying to hide from his KS backers perhaps?)...
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/alice ... c=activity

The BALLS on this guy!

Even if some have received their decks by now, this project clearly belongs in the Hall of Shame!!!
http://unitedcardists.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=4317" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[montecarlojoe]

2 months to go!

Still waiting on mine as it goes!

[th4mo]

2 months to go!

Still waiting on mine as it goes!

Even if he delivers them all tomorrow...
Starting a new project while the first one is stagnated is just shameful!!!

[montecarlojoe]

I agree that it's not been well managed - but 6 months is the cut-off for the HoS. It's purposely long so people can't really complain about ending up there! This project probably will end up in there - I can't see him sending everything out in the next 8 weeks.

(Keep an eye out next week - there will definitely be new additions to the HoS...)

[chach]

He's publicly stated that he doesn't have the funds to ship decks out and that's the reason he's selling them separately, so he can raise money to pay for the shipping. I've written off ever receiving my decks, the dude is a moron and a crook in my eyes.

[Magic_Orthodoxy]

I got mine, but in all seriousness it's the worst deck I've ever received ... the stock from Cartmundi was not on par with what we're all used to from Bike

my review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2oXgcbxnsQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[sprouts1115]

@ Magic_Othodoxy - Watched your video. Seemed pretty honest....

[Lotrek]

What is really disheartening is all this effort by backers to help him get funded during the last days. This makes me mad!

Will the world ever get rid of crooks?

[Magic_Orthodoxy]

N E W - U P D A T E ( June 17, 2014 )

This will be a short update about shipping. As some of you have known, I have been trying to raise funds at conventions to help with shipping with little success. I am no longer going to conventions and will focus on staying in my area working to get your decks shipped. My partners, however, will continue working the conventions to raise funds by selling non-project items to help get your decks out. I have had some personal and financial issues that have affected my life severely, and I am just trying to survive at this point. I have been stressed out over this project, but my intent and goal has always been to complete it.

I will resume shipping this weekend. I can only ship week to week, in piece-mail amounts. I will ship what I am personally able to afford. The partners I have been working with have tried to help me with this project, and are continuing to help with fulfillment. However, I personally want to make sure that I can at least resume shipping.

I apologize sincerely for the long delay. If you have any questions, please direct them and any concerns at our main email address:

info@aliceofwonderland.com

Thank you

[Cbkimble]

I just ordered one of each from GW. I'm gonna learn to do some research on these decks before buying them.