to: zsalman
What you have wrote means very much to me. I totally appreciate the effort which you put into the sharing of your thoughts. I have looked much at your art and I am blown away by the elaborate vision that it all has. I have intended to back your deck, but with all that has been going on lately, I hadn't got around to it yet. As far as my statement about the art being cleared with USPCC; what I meant was that the forum just seemed so quick to jump to the conclusion that art such as that would not be cleared and therefore would be considered distasteful... when I certainly had no intentions to be distasteful, any more than you with your art or Degas did. It's not that that sort of viewpoint is a surprise to me... but that I was surprised to see it here where art should be more understood. Also, that the implication was so weighed towards the fact that it would NOT be cleared. I had spent much time going over this with USPCC and yes they do have guidelines. Possibly, with your art being of a photographic nature, they wanted to take futher note of it. Also, I had never intended this to be a Bike Branded deck from the very get go... and so, that may have made a difference in the whole decisionary process. It is a representation of my art: LaBelle. I would love to have had a mock up produced but, wowie kazowie, that's a tall order financially!!! However, the fact that you took those extra measures is to be appreciated in of your focus to excellence.
I'm going to pledge a support to your deck right now. I am but a poor boy, and will only be able to pledge for 1 deck. But I think that your Art, your Efforts, your Caring about art, and even everyone elses, like my meger effort... is highly commendable. I do hope that you succeed... your specialized art has created the most unique and original deck that I have ever seen.
Other's can see his art here:
http://kck.st/WGZ03r" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Good Luck, Zaid.
Jean~*
Labelle Playing Cards - Live on Kickstarter
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DukeBoy
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Re: Labelle Playing Cards - Live on Kickstarter
Jean,
I like all of your art as pieces. The issue is I tend to love decks that have one clear theme throughout the deck. As I said I like all of it, it just does not seem to go together. It would be like having multiple style of art on the same canvas, the left as art nouveau, the center impressionist, the right renaissance. A deck to me is a single canvas. I tend to not like the decks that have traditional courts, even the re-colored or just facial changes. I am not a magician so I want the decks as fully custom as they can come. The decks such as Army Men and Black Tie are as close to traditional as I really want to go. I have picked up decks that do not have the custom courts because the box and backs and the few changes are really good, but not in the amount that I normally would. I am on the fence now because I like the parts of the decks themselves as pieces.
In regards to the USPC printing the deck, I think they would print it as is but with the references you had: the Company name, address and finish type, we wondered if they had seen it.
I like all of your art as pieces. The issue is I tend to love decks that have one clear theme throughout the deck. As I said I like all of it, it just does not seem to go together. It would be like having multiple style of art on the same canvas, the left as art nouveau, the center impressionist, the right renaissance. A deck to me is a single canvas. I tend to not like the decks that have traditional courts, even the re-colored or just facial changes. I am not a magician so I want the decks as fully custom as they can come. The decks such as Army Men and Black Tie are as close to traditional as I really want to go. I have picked up decks that do not have the custom courts because the box and backs and the few changes are really good, but not in the amount that I normally would. I am on the fence now because I like the parts of the decks themselves as pieces.
In regards to the USPC printing the deck, I think they would print it as is but with the references you had: the Company name, address and finish type, we wondered if they had seen it.
10-4 over and out
Re: Labelle Playing Cards - Live on Kickstarter
Jean,
Thank you very much for your support! I have backed your project as well, we artists need to stick together!
I'd like to give you some more detailed feedback on your deck, in the hopes that you might be able to make some small tweaks and really bring your deck design together. I know you have tried to incorporate a lot ideas, emotions, and backstory into this deck. But perhaps there is too much, and it's all getting muddled togehter. It's like trying to watch TV and listen to the stereo at the same time.
As DukeBoy points out, there is no thematic unity in the deck. You have different styles and different moods on the various elements of the deck and they don't all mesh together. You have named this deck "The Mystic" so we are expecting, hoping, to see elements of mystery and mysticism and be taken to that place when we view or handle this deck.
You have the card back design which is dark and foreboding, but you have chosen highly saturated primary colors throughout the deck, which create a light and upbeat feeling. Choosing more muted, non-primary colors would help better set the tone of mystery that it seems you're going for.
As for the courts, I agree that they are a little too tradtionally-inspired. You have tried to put a different spin on them, and I can see that they might evoke images of gypsies and psychics with tarot cards and crystal balls, but they don't take me all the way there. Again, color choice is a big factor here, but also the way the courts themselves are drawn.
The AoS is nice, and I know that the angel image is modeled after your father's 1947 drawing, but I don't think it works here. Having her back towards us with her weight shifted to one side evokes a glamour pose to me, something you might see in a fashion magazine. I know about that because I'm always trying to get my models to NOT stand that way! Perhaps having her facing us in a more squared off pose would work better. In fact, I think the way the angel is drawn on the front of the tuckbox could work, too. Again, we're trying to evoke mystery, yes? Another option is to use your T-shirt design instead. I think that would actually work very well.
The Joker is another area where I feel like things are comical, light, and upbeat, rather than mysterious. When I see this Joker, I can't help but think of the Riddler from Batman. Again, color choices, but also the drawing style. I think a more representational drawing would help, i.e. having his skull look like the skull on the card back and the T-shirt. That would also help give you some much needed unity.
Finally, the spot cards. They're just, well, plain. They deserve to be more than that. The pips are custom, but they still look like traditional pips. How about some more adventure with the pip designs? Really push the limit and design pips that we haven't seen before and that are mystical and mysterious. And how about a different arrangement of the pips on the cards? Maybe a little off-balance arrangement that makes me a feel a little unsure of things as I'm looking at the cards?
What about the indices? They look pretty stoic. Perhaps you could do some custom lettering? At least give us some serifs and flourishes on the lettering to provide some more flow.
Sometimes all it takes is giving yourself permission to step outside the box and just do something new. Maybe you haven't given yourself that permission yet, but I think there's a lot of room here to be adventurous while still creating a deck that is beautiful as well as functional.
Zaid
Thank you very much for your support! I have backed your project as well, we artists need to stick together!
I'd like to give you some more detailed feedback on your deck, in the hopes that you might be able to make some small tweaks and really bring your deck design together. I know you have tried to incorporate a lot ideas, emotions, and backstory into this deck. But perhaps there is too much, and it's all getting muddled togehter. It's like trying to watch TV and listen to the stereo at the same time.
As DukeBoy points out, there is no thematic unity in the deck. You have different styles and different moods on the various elements of the deck and they don't all mesh together. You have named this deck "The Mystic" so we are expecting, hoping, to see elements of mystery and mysticism and be taken to that place when we view or handle this deck.
You have the card back design which is dark and foreboding, but you have chosen highly saturated primary colors throughout the deck, which create a light and upbeat feeling. Choosing more muted, non-primary colors would help better set the tone of mystery that it seems you're going for.
As for the courts, I agree that they are a little too tradtionally-inspired. You have tried to put a different spin on them, and I can see that they might evoke images of gypsies and psychics with tarot cards and crystal balls, but they don't take me all the way there. Again, color choice is a big factor here, but also the way the courts themselves are drawn.
The AoS is nice, and I know that the angel image is modeled after your father's 1947 drawing, but I don't think it works here. Having her back towards us with her weight shifted to one side evokes a glamour pose to me, something you might see in a fashion magazine. I know about that because I'm always trying to get my models to NOT stand that way! Perhaps having her facing us in a more squared off pose would work better. In fact, I think the way the angel is drawn on the front of the tuckbox could work, too. Again, we're trying to evoke mystery, yes? Another option is to use your T-shirt design instead. I think that would actually work very well.
The Joker is another area where I feel like things are comical, light, and upbeat, rather than mysterious. When I see this Joker, I can't help but think of the Riddler from Batman. Again, color choices, but also the drawing style. I think a more representational drawing would help, i.e. having his skull look like the skull on the card back and the T-shirt. That would also help give you some much needed unity.
Finally, the spot cards. They're just, well, plain. They deserve to be more than that. The pips are custom, but they still look like traditional pips. How about some more adventure with the pip designs? Really push the limit and design pips that we haven't seen before and that are mystical and mysterious. And how about a different arrangement of the pips on the cards? Maybe a little off-balance arrangement that makes me a feel a little unsure of things as I'm looking at the cards?
What about the indices? They look pretty stoic. Perhaps you could do some custom lettering? At least give us some serifs and flourishes on the lettering to provide some more flow.
Sometimes all it takes is giving yourself permission to step outside the box and just do something new. Maybe you haven't given yourself that permission yet, but I think there's a lot of room here to be adventurous while still creating a deck that is beautiful as well as functional.
Zaid
Re: Labelle Playing Cards - Live on Kickstarter
To: DukeBoy,
I completely understand and respect that. It really makes perfect sense, especially in the sense of a "CUSTOM" art deck. And then, therefore, the Deck should be the 'complete' canvas. It's just that I took a different approach. And you're input to this experience is greatly enlightening. Even if my deck isn't successful, I will have gained a great experience overall. But, maybe it will still be, and then it will be there to be apart of the total experience.
~ Jean
I completely understand and respect that. It really makes perfect sense, especially in the sense of a "CUSTOM" art deck. And then, therefore, the Deck should be the 'complete' canvas. It's just that I took a different approach. And you're input to this experience is greatly enlightening. Even if my deck isn't successful, I will have gained a great experience overall. But, maybe it will still be, and then it will be there to be apart of the total experience.
~ JeanRe: Labelle Playing Cards - Live on Kickstarter
Great input, Ziad ...and I definately appreciate the concerted effort. Though, it does also remind me of some of the reasons that I actually dIdn't take those measures...
So, many of the 'Custom' cards that I see actually DO 'push the limits' and 'step outside the box' so to speak with their designs. And I do often like what is done. However, I have been a deep fan of playing cards since I was a boy in the early 1970's. And I love the card traditions. I love the traditional number cards. I had even at one point considered doing a 'dark' back design and using the 'actual' traditional court and number cards as the faces.
To me, card 'Back' designs have always stood apart. I don't know, it just does to me. The Back is it's own being. Then, there are the faces... on the 'Other Side'. Another Land... like in Oz... Or Alice in Wonderland. There are TWO sides to the cards... and yet they interact. But, to me, not ALWAYS in a perfectly congruent manner. It's fine that they would... but, not necessary in the 'standard' idea for me. In fact it is also actually Why I went with brighter primary colors on the faces... they would have a vividness that actually contrasted the deep black of the OTHER side. There is often considered an 'Other' side in of the Mysteries of life and Magic. Even Night is in dark contrast to the light of Day, and yet they work together to create a world that is particular to what we live in and experience. Should All this be in 'ONE' deck? Maybe not... but... maybe so. That I did it, is that it exists. And that is the art of it. If it can only be funded and then brought to a reality.
It's the same idea with the Joker... is it a GOOD idea? Maybe not. I guess that's up to the beholder. But, the Joker is meant to be his own distinct personallity. He doesn't FIT in with the others. He doesn't flow along with the plan. He is the deviant. Yes, he may be Freakish to the art of the rest of the deck... and not fit in... but that is why he is the deviant... and that is why he is the Joker.
~*
So, many of the 'Custom' cards that I see actually DO 'push the limits' and 'step outside the box' so to speak with their designs. And I do often like what is done. However, I have been a deep fan of playing cards since I was a boy in the early 1970's. And I love the card traditions. I love the traditional number cards. I had even at one point considered doing a 'dark' back design and using the 'actual' traditional court and number cards as the faces.
To me, card 'Back' designs have always stood apart. I don't know, it just does to me. The Back is it's own being. Then, there are the faces... on the 'Other Side'. Another Land... like in Oz... Or Alice in Wonderland. There are TWO sides to the cards... and yet they interact. But, to me, not ALWAYS in a perfectly congruent manner. It's fine that they would... but, not necessary in the 'standard' idea for me. In fact it is also actually Why I went with brighter primary colors on the faces... they would have a vividness that actually contrasted the deep black of the OTHER side. There is often considered an 'Other' side in of the Mysteries of life and Magic. Even Night is in dark contrast to the light of Day, and yet they work together to create a world that is particular to what we live in and experience. Should All this be in 'ONE' deck? Maybe not... but... maybe so. That I did it, is that it exists. And that is the art of it. If it can only be funded and then brought to a reality.
It's the same idea with the Joker... is it a GOOD idea? Maybe not. I guess that's up to the beholder. But, the Joker is meant to be his own distinct personallity. He doesn't FIT in with the others. He doesn't flow along with the plan. He is the deviant. Yes, he may be Freakish to the art of the rest of the deck... and not fit in... but that is why he is the deviant... and that is why he is the Joker.
~*
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walrus
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Re: Labelle Playing Cards - Live on Kickstarter
Damn you LaBelle, you had to quote the Beatles. Now I love your cards. Is there a limit on how many bricks I can buy? What are you doing Friday nightLaBelle wrote:To walrus: I did feel a personal understanding in of what you conveyed. Experiences such as that are what has led me to a better understanding - and appreciation - of art and life.
Yes, the art of this deck is, in fact, something I was 'going for'. It has come by way of a long journey for me. I am sorry if it came together too disjointed. But, to me, there is a subtle harmony to it all. The skulls do have their place, as do the angels, as do the faces... it is, I guess, by way of me and my life.
I do appreciate your thoughts, walrus. And maybe my deck is kinda like John even once said: "I am he as you are he as you are me... And we are all together... See how they Run... like pigs from a gun... See how they fly........ I'm crying.
Re: Labelle Playing Cards - Live on Kickstarter
...awkward...walrus wrote:Damn you LaBelle, you had to quote the Beatles. Now I love your cards. Is there a limit on how many bricks I can buy? What are you doing Friday nightLaBelle wrote:To walrus: I did feel a personal understanding in of what you conveyed. Experiences such as that are what has led me to a better understanding - and appreciation - of art and life.
Yes, the art of this deck is, in fact, something I was 'going for'. It has come by way of a long journey for me. I am sorry if it came together too disjointed. But, to me, there is a subtle harmony to it all. The skulls do have their place, as do the angels, as do the faces... it is, I guess, by way of me and my life.
I do appreciate your thoughts, walrus. And maybe my deck is kinda like John even once said: "I am he as you are he as you are me... And we are all together... See how they Run... like pigs from a gun... See how they fly........ I'm crying.
No matter where you go... there you are :|
Invite You to take a further look at ♣ LABELLE CARDS
I truly do appreciate this forum and I invite all of you to take another look at what I have done with this deck... and my KIckstarter Project that id going on now.
I worked hard and long on making this deck something a little different, moody and yet elegant... still, with an homage to classic and traditional card designs.
Some of you that have earlier seen the deck design, have commended my work... some have said that they didn't care for it... but, I invite you to please take another look at it, while my project still has a chance.
If you did choose to support this. It would bring a lifetime of considerations to a whole new beginning... as I do want to make future new and different card decks... still, this deck was to be a start to it all, as I have sacraficed a lot to be able to even get to this point.
http://kck.st/YKkOrt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Anyway, I do apprecite the forum here and all that I learn from it.
~ Jean
MERGED
I worked hard and long on making this deck something a little different, moody and yet elegant... still, with an homage to classic and traditional card designs.
Some of you that have earlier seen the deck design, have commended my work... some have said that they didn't care for it... but, I invite you to please take another look at it, while my project still has a chance.
If you did choose to support this. It would bring a lifetime of considerations to a whole new beginning... as I do want to make future new and different card decks... still, this deck was to be a start to it all, as I have sacraficed a lot to be able to even get to this point.
http://kck.st/YKkOrt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Anyway, I do apprecite the forum here and all that I learn from it.
~ Jean
MERGED
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alric
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Re: Labelle Playing Cards - Live on Kickstarter
I think you have a very nice background story about your father, so I wish you the best of luck. However, the moment you went with skulls and mild nudity, you basically confined yourself to a certain demographic so you probably won't achieve a broad appeal. Having said that, I think a lot of people will still appreciate the high degree of customization you put into the court cards and the spot cards.
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