Outlaw Playing Cards

[RichK]

I like that WAY better than the original! I wish there was a way to just pledge for that alone.

Why not PM Lee and ask if you pledge 1 dollar can you just add that deck? Can't hurt.

[vasta41]

Turns out the original jokers (giving the middle finger) were denied by the USPCC and Lee had to re-draw them:


Still a great design IMO but how silly of USPCC. Per the latest KS update:

I addressed USPC's legal department and presented a counter-proposal in defence of the artwork. In my eyes (not a legal term apparently , it had not crossed any of their Offensive Artwork Policy, and certainly not as much as some other decks they've produced in the past have. I stated a passionate but fact based response, and communicated that the nature of the Outlaw art is not condoning violence or hatred. It's the spirit of a bold, rebellious and inspiring message to encourage people to go their own way, do what matters them and be who you are regardless of what the world tells you to be. Also, to remove any legal responsibility on their behalf, I would happily sign a legal document that would restrict me from associating this deck with USPC in anyway, removing the credit from the box and never mentioned the 2 in connection to each other going forward.

No dice. The response was, if they allowed my "middle finger" artwork to go through, they would have to allow any others to go through (and there have been many apparently). So if I wanted to have USPC print the cards, I would have to change the artwork. It's black and white. And I can't see their point of view and the possible back-lash they may have to deal with should someone have an issue with it and want to sue them. You know, one of "those" types of people.

Resolution - I certainly don't need to tell you about the quality of playing cards produced by the United States Playing Card Co. Magicians and card players the world over know of their quality. Brands like Theory 11, Ellusionist, Dan & Dave and others use USPC for their own cards for good reason.

Although Taiwan manufacturing (through Legends or Expert Playing Card Co. has produced some very high quality cards, the same goes for long-standing Cartamundi in Belgium. But at the end of the day, this is a USA themed deck primarily, and should be made by the greatest US playing card producers on a premium card stock and finish that makes it among the highest quality decks in the world. I've loved USPCs cards since my first deck at 11 years old, so for all these reasons, I'm sticking with USPC and will modify the Joker art.

[Merlebird]

Turns out the original jokers (giving the middle finger) were denied by the USPCC and Lee had to re-draw them:


Still a great design IMO but how silly of USPCC.

100%, unequivocally agree. It's USPCC's "rationale" here, I think, that rankles me:

The response was, if they allowed my "middle finger" artwork to go through, they would have to allow any others to go through (and there have been many apparently).

Now, IANAL, but this just doesn't wash for me. USPCC is a big, influential printer, sure, but they're not an arm of the federal government; they don't have a legal obligation to be consistent. They should have fairly broad editorial control over what they do or don't print, including for subjective reasons ("artistic merit," etc.), the same as any publisher, no? I guess there's a difference in business model, in that a book publisher buys manuscripts and USPCC is not buying Lee's designs. I dunno. I just think it's a shame.

EDIT: Substitute jokers are now up for a vote in the latest backer update:

[vasta41]

Wow, USPCC is killing Lee- more "birds" had to be taken out but I gotta say I love how he handled it:

[Merlebird]

So, we ran into a few more issues with some middle fingers that USPC didn't catch first time around. With all the focus on the Joker issues it didn't get flagged.

What the hell kind of church ladies are running USPCC that they got this discombobulated at the sight of a middle finger...? This is just embarrassing. You'd think the very first thing a professional adult would've done is checked the entire deck for the same issue once they spotted it.

I'm having an even harder time understanding their hangups now that I've opened and looked at Gio's Eva deck, which was also USPCC. A deck full of nipples that could poke out the very eyes of God is no problem, but a couple middle fingers and suddenly everybody in Erlanger has to take to the office fainting couch?

That's my fainting couch. I need it to read the news.

[Räpylätassu]

I honestly don't understand you Americans... Always preaching on about freedom, but oh no we can't have cursing in any form or *gasp* a female nipple or *faints* a middle finger.

Here in Finland, nudity is normal and nothing to be ashamed of, cursing can be a form of experssing yourself and a we don't censor middle fingers because honestly it's nothing shocking.

[Bradius]

A deck full of nipples that could poke out the very eyes of God

That was funny.

Now if you notice closely, the new image has her thumb crossing her fingers. Maybe she should be exposing her breasts too. It worked for Gio.

[Merlebird]

I honestly don't understand you Americans... Always preaching on about freedom, but oh no we can't have cursing in any form or *gasp* a female nipple or *faints* a middle finger.

I'm in agreement with you that none of those things need or merit the treatment they get in the US. What I was trying to get at was that media companies and publishers here will usually treat swearing, sex and nudity as a single category and their handling of all "mature content" is usually consistent across that category. So it seems very strange for them to understand artistic nudity, but not artistic profanity/irreverence.

Did you ever see that George Carlin bit about the seven words you can't say on TV? This is like USPCC decided Words #3 and 7 were all-ages appropriate but #2 was right out.

It's a highly selective and irrational prudishness even for us, was my point.

[sinjin7]

I would like to remind people to NOT conflate the Constitutionally provisioned freedom of expression and speech we have here in the United States with the rules and regulations of a privately owned company. The Federal and state governments shall not infringe upon an individual's right to free expression and speech, but the USPCC is also free to impose whatever guidelines they deem consistent with the public image they wish to portray of themselves.

Lee can flip as many birds as he wants (or flash nipple) in his art and the U.S. government won't stop that, but if the USPCC, a private company, feels his art violates any of their guidelines (even if we personally believe them to be inconsistent) they absolutely can stop Lee. Keep in mind that a broad spectrum of USPCC's business is producing family games for children. It's within their right to determine what art is permissible on their products and what art is not.

[theCapraAegagrus]

I think an understandable line can be drawn here. The nature of the Eva deck is that of sins/lust. Nudity of the female form is essential. I don't recall many fingers being flipped in all 7 seasons of Sons of Anarchy. I just think that the sin of lust requires nudity. Outlaws don't require the middle finger. That's the only logical conclusion that I can draw. I'm not saying that the USPCC and its decisions are always logical, of course...

I do like how the back design change was handled. Well done.

[Merlebird]

Lee can flip as many birds as he wants (or flash nipple) in his art and the U.S. government won't stop that, but if the USPCC, a private company, feels his art violates any of their guidelines (even if we personally believe them to be inconsistent) they absolutely can stop Lee. Keep in mind that a broad spectrum of USPCC's business is producing family games for children. It's within their right to determine what art is permissible on their products and what art is not.

All anybody said was the part that I underlined. Unless I'm missing a post somewhere that said "ZOMG USPCC IZ BREAKIN TEH LAW, MUH FREEDOMS," I have no idea what you're even responding to.

Outlaws don't require the middle finger.

Respectfully disagree.

[sinjin7]

Lee can flip as many birds as he wants (or flash nipple) in his art and the U.S. government won't stop that, but if the USPCC, a private company, feels his art violates any of their guidelines (even if we personally believe them to be inconsistent) they absolutely can stop Lee. Keep in mind that a broad spectrum of USPCC's business is producing family games for children. It's within their right to determine what art is permissible on their products and what art is not.

All anybody said was the part that I underlined. Unless I'm missing a post somewhere that said "ZOMG USPCC IZ BREAKIN TEH LAW, MUH FREEDOMS," I have no idea what you're even responding to.

Let me clarify for you:

I honestly don't understand you Americans... Always preaching on about freedom, but oh no we can't have cursing in any form or *gasp* a female nipple or *faints* a middle finger.

Here in Finland, nudity is normal and nothing to be ashamed of, cursing can be a form of experssing yourself and a we don't censor middle fingers because honestly it's nothing shocking.

My point is Americans do have freedom of expression, the government can't censor us. But private companies can do as they please, that's a separate issue and the two shouldn't be lumped together. Rap was comparing America to Finland and I was responding to that.

[CBJ]

The real question i have is...


Sinjin, why aren't you commenting on this thread...

https://www.unitedcardists.com/viewtopi ... 81&t=11458" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Jay

[sinjin7]

Well, Sher and Sharpie stopped by to say "hi" so it was good to see them here again. I think Volantangel mentioned he was getting pretty busy with real life before, and it's still a bit of a mystery to me why Eoghann isn't around anymore. And we all miss Walrus.

Getting back to Outlaw, I think Lee did a great job with getting around USPCC's restrictions while still preserving the edginess of his deck.

[pstaehlin]

I honestly don't understand you Americans... Always preaching on about freedom, but oh no we can't have cursing in any form or *gasp* a female nipple or *faints* a middle finger.

Here in Finland, nudity is normal and nothing to be ashamed of, cursing can be a form of experssing yourself and a we don't censor middle fingers because honestly it's nothing shocking.

I live in the US and I completely agree with you there in Finland. It's ridiculous, I know.
Cheers to you in Finland!

[Bradius]

I don't know if anyone else has received their Outlaw decks, but I got mine today. Included was a nice sticker of the king on his motercycle flipping the bird! Love it.

[CBJ]

They are en route to me ... and I can't wait!!!

[badpete69]

Yep they came in... Now only waiting for my longest wait Kickstarter product which is coming up on 4 years late , the warrior guard ... Lee it's all good I still have more wait in me hahahaha

[Merlebird]

I'm a little disappointed. The campaign promised you wouldn't "need a degree in physics to crack the code" of the marking system on the Hell Riders deck. Well, I thought that meant a BA would be fine but I guess you still need a BS... I got mine in yesterday and I couldn't figure it out. If you've solved it and you feel like being generous, please PM me the answer key so I can copy off your homework.

[JuFiN]

I'm a little disappointed. The campaign promised you wouldn't "need a degree in physics to crack the code" of the marking system on the Hell Riders deck. Well, I thought that meant a BA would be fine but I guess you still need a BS... I got mine in yesterday and I couldn't figure it out. If you've solved it and you feel like being generous, please PM me the answer key so I can copy off your homework.

There is a website listed at the bottom of one of the extra cards. That website explains the marking system

[Merlebird]

There is a website listed at the bottom of one of the extra cards. That website explains the marking system

I'll be damned, there it is. I looked at the slogan side of the extra card but I don't think I even glanced at the logo side. Well, now everybody knows who not to invite to do an escape room with them. Thanks JuFiN