Outlaw Playing Cards

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Outlaw Playing Cards

Unread postby Oscar53955 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:15 pm  

New deck from Kings & Crooks. Launching on Kickstarter January 16 at 12pm PST
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Re: Outlaw Playing Cards

Unread postby Räpylätassu » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:33 pm  

Watching all the crap put out recently and every good deck that has been put out recently being in early stages I just feel like that I freaking need a good deck.
Left my heart in SIERRA MADRE

"Finding it... that's not the hard part. It's letting go."

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Re: Outlaw Playing Cards

Unread postby portcullis » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:20 am  

Gotta agree with you Räpylätassu, it's been pretty slim pickings of late. Tuck looks awesome, let's hope it carries through.
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Re: Outlaw Playing Cards

Unread postby Bikefanatic » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:21 pm  

interested to see what Lee does next which this deck will be very different than the Empire series. I'm not expecting anything, if the deck is better than good I'll buy. Whenever he finally gets the warrior card case made, I'll buy it.
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Re: Outlaw Playing Cards

Unread postby badpete69 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:05 pm  

Nice stuff Can't wait for Lee's new project.
Still waiting for my warrior metal guard after almost 4 years but it will come one day. Lee has kept us updated over the years.
What sucks is the timing of the new Outlaws deck that just came out... Oh well it is just a title
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Re: Outlaw Playing Cards

Unread postby badpete69 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:57 pm  

Now live
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Re: Outlaw Playing Cards

Unread postby vasta41 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:27 pm  

Great deck- didn't doubt that. But $15? I'll have to think on it.
**Insert "when I was a kid" reference here**
*FOR SALE* Many decks in my collection: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8109#p96826.
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Re: Outlaw Playing Cards

Unread postby serubi » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:35 pm  

vasta41 wrote:Great deck- didn't doubt that. But $15? I'll have to think on it.
**Insert "when I was a kid" reference here**

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Re: Outlaw Playing Cards

Unread postby TGunitedcardists » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:52 pm  

I like the Joker, but after that, not my cup of tea. A $19,000 USD goal is ambitious.
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Re: Outlaw Playing Cards

Unread postby TwoPieceFeed » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:22 am  

Not impressed. They're not bad, though.
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Re: Outlaw Playing Cards

Unread postby caniveski » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:59 pm  

love the courts. postage to UK an issue, will back tho
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Re: Outlaw Playing Cards

Unread postby Bradius » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:41 pm  

I am okay with the deck, but not the price. I too am going to look from the sidelines on this one. That said, I am seeing these kinds of prices more and more and the only way to sometimes get the price down is to buy several, and I am just not going to that right now unless the deck just blows me away.

Congrats though on reaching nearly $10k already. A lot of playing cards never get that much pledged.
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Re: Outlaw Playing Cards

Unread postby leemckenzie » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:17 am  

Hey guys, thanks a lot for the comments. All valid points which I hope to expand on a little more here.

Firstly, I agree this deck has a very specific look as is probably not for everyone, which I'm ok with. I absolutely love it, which is why I made it haha. But yeah, not everyones tastes.

With regards to the price (here we go haha), I had to go and get a third party to help with produce tuck box as USPC pricing was way too steep. If the deck was completely done with USPC, it would barely be worth doing at all. I'm not a big business who knows they can move 5000+ units every week. It's just me. So unless you invest in a large minimum like 5,000 + and don't use specialized processes (foils, emboss, custom seals etc), it's steep. I'm also using a third party for the custom seal for the same reason. USPS were not willing to allow a custom die shape unless a significant amount were being produced. It's not worth it stop all production to test the equipment unless you're willing to pay a large fee too, which would add again to the cost.

So in an effort to keep the project do-able at a small run, we end up having all these multiple elements to help control the cost. They all need to be shipped across the country, then assembled/seals applies and cello wrapped, and store/fulfilled by US partners to allow shipping costs to be included for US backers. it's quite a mission. Rather than just have everything done in one place, which would be easier, but more costly. So in doing all this, it's slightly more affordable, but still significant and requires much more management and effort to produce all the while. But I know price is important, so I had to try and make it work.

USPS have rate increase every year too, with another coming in a few days, which I hope doesn't mess everything up when it comes to shipping time. With Kickstarter, they include any shipping costs paid as part of the overall funding goal. Some forget this or have no reference for working it out and so loose a hell of a lot on shipping. I wanted to be sure, based on my past projects, that we're covered for the average expected shipping costs once we reach our goal.

Approximately $7 - 8,000 of the goal will be soaked up by shipping/fulfillment expenses and Kickstarters fee schedule alone. That's insane, but you have to consider it or get caught short and have to find that yourself.

Just a note on the nature of the project. This is not a side project for me, or a fun past time. It's my full-time career, business aswell as a passion. If I were to price this so it was a total no-brainer for everyone (which would be awesome by the way, everyone loves a deal including myself), and maybe end up with $1-$2 profit per deck to live off, this would all come to a halt and I'd never be able to design cards again. Or at least make any kind of living from it. I believe I have some deck designs that people would really enjoy, and I love doing it, so I'm trying to continue doing so. Based on what I see around, I tried to balance a good price for a good value product. And considering all fulfillment, materials, shipping, assembly, and 3 separate elements of production are covered in each deck price, I felt it was a justified price. Especially compared to some other similar projects.

Apart from places like E, T11, D&D and a few others, it seems most other deck creators just do it on the side, not as a full-time thing.

If I consistently sold 30,000+ decks a year (which is waaaaay out of my league), it would be so much easier to get the cards made for cheaper, and then offer them cheaper and only make a $1 or 2 per deck and make a living. But that's a long way for me, if ever. So if I fail before then, so be it. But I have to try and give it my best shot and do what I believe is right in the given circumstances.

I'm certainly not trying to rip anyone off and put people off. This isn't some phantom rivate reserve for $500. I would have taken the money and ran with the other projects if I was that type of person. I'm familiar with whats involved and want to make sure we don't end up in a position were things fall apart due to naive planning and everyone ends up with nothing. But I also understand, that may not suit some people, and others may jump in and not blink an eye. We all have our perspectives.

Thanks for hearing me out guys, I really appreciate it. And thank you for voicing all of your concerns, I appreciate the honesty and couldn't ask for anything more. And while I'm not keen on spending hours explaining myself so I'm not misunderstood (and if I'm honest, feeling a little deflated like I've let you down while doing so), I hope it helps somewhat.

Each of us have our own circumstances and perspective, but I just wanted you to know what's involved in making it, and why I made the choices I did. Honesty is important, whether it's what we want to hear or not. So thank you all again.

All the best, and keep the card love alive! :)
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Re: Outlaw Playing Cards

Unread postby Adonael » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:42 pm  

I like the courts, and I love that bearded skull, having recently played Mad Max (which is a great game) I'm definitely feeling this. I still find it hilarious when US backers complain about price (with shipping included too FFS!), if they only could appreciate how good they have it in regard to playing cards.
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Re: Outlaw Playing Cards

Unread postby portcullis » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:02 am  

Yeah as an Australian, pledging in AUD for an AU campaign and then having to pay shipping [in this case =1/3rd of my pledge] is just a little galling. Still making up my mind if I wanna pledge or not.
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Re: Outlaw Playing Cards

Unread postby rkoch78 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:12 pm  

I am far from the outlaw, motorcycle gang or rebel lifestyle depicted in these cards but I think the artwork and design is outstanding on this deck.

As far as the deck price itself, it is ~$13 USD if you pledge for at least 2...which I would assume most people here would do; if not more. You might be able to get a similar quality deck from T11 or Ellusionist for a little cheaper...but, as Lee said, he does not work on the scale that they do; so he has to price it where he can make a decent profit for himself. Being fairly cheap myself (cannot afford Lotrek quality decks), I think the pricing is pretty fair.

On the shipping, I get that people outside the US might have a gripe with the cost...but the cards and tuck are being made here; so makes sense that they would be shipped from here. If you are in the US, there should be no complaints on free shipping (IMO). Especially considering that most online sites within the US that sell custom decks charge for shipping to the US; including Art of Play (unless you spend $75+).
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Re: Outlaw Playing Cards

Unread postby Räpylätassu » Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:39 pm  

I like this! I hope it gets funded!
Left my heart in SIERRA MADRE

"Finding it... that's not the hard part. It's letting go."

"One makes a trip by day, but by night one sets out on a journey." -Moominmamma

I dream of a world where wars are fought only by having dance offs. I also dream that a Finnish playing card designer would exist. The former seems more likely to happend.

Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a penguin. Have you ever met a sad person with a penguin?

Are lobsters mermaids to scorpions?

"I did not hit her, it's not true, it's bullsh*t, I did not hit her, I did naaaht! Oh hai Mark!"

MY TRADELIST

MY TOP 100 DECKS
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Re: Outlaw Playing Cards

Unread postby Orioncap » Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:52 am  

I quite like the feel of this deck and have backed, i know people complain about the costs of the decks these days but i have looked into having a deck printing myself and the costs can really hit hard for a hi quality job.
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