Verum Videre (Jackson Robinson / Kings Wild Project)

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Re: Verum Videre (Jackson Robinson / Kings Wild Project)

Unread post by theCapraAegagrus »

TGunitedcardists wrote:
Bruno wrote:JR certainly made lots of cash for lots of backers across a number of his projects.
It is easy to differentiate the successful from the failures at that profit making exercise.
Failed profit takers clogging up these boards with the Projectioning and the Telegraphing of >Their Own Inefficiencies and Inaccuracies< ....
They never seem to tire of embarrassing themselves .... whilst vexatiously and mendaciously maligning a great volume producer who is *not in the least* interested in their >>petty and malicious negativity<<.
This is one of the >Truths<, indeed >The Truth< perpetuated throughout this thread.
That is all.
Carry on.
Do you ever make sense?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Verum Videre (Jackson Robinson / Kings Wild Project)

Unread post by theCapraAegagrus »

vasta41 wrote:If JR can sell decks of cards at higher prices than he should then who's to blame- the creator or the consumer? I have always given credit to artists that can do that. I don't like it but I don't have to like it- there are clearly enough people out there who do. So his profit-making ability doesn't bother me. And I'm sure I speak for many here when I say that his designs don't bother me either- he's a truly gifted artist. What bothers me is his "take-it-or-leave-it" attitude which I perceive as smug and arrogant. Not only do things go wrong but when they do his "solution" is either take a refund or deal with it. And for those counting here's a list of all the false promises over the years:
CRAZY 8s
What was offered: embossing on LTD tuck case
What was sold: NO embossing on LTD tuck case (in fairness an extra autographed deck was included for free)

TEXAS
What was offered: a black on blue color scheme on the back of the cards
What was sold: a black on very dark grey, almost black color scheme

TALLY-HO BLACK DIAMOND
What was offered: metal tuck case
What (will be) sold: wooden tuck case

LEGAL TENDER
What was offered: holographic strip on court cards
What was sold: no holographic strips

PEARL TALLY-HO
What was offered: 100 Gilded decks
What was sold: at least 200 Gilded decks

That's not even including the mistakes that were made in these and other projects (most notably the Gold Liberty deck with "LIBETY" written on the side of the tuck) but hey, we're all human- mistakes happen. But the false advertisement and unwillingness to face his critics is what will keep me from buying any more of his stuff. I know we're a tough crowd but when the going got tough, JR got going... away from UC.
Honestly, though:

1. The lack of embossing on the Crazy 8's tuck cases was, intentionally or otherwise, an improvement. It fits the childish artwork of the theme.

2. I don't think that the black-on-blue would have looked as good as some may have expected. They're not very complimentary colors outside of MTG.

3. As stated, the metal case was delivered (albeit late), and this didn't affect the form or functionality of the decks in the slightest bit. Non-point IMO.

4. This one is valid; as is the lack of tuck seals promised.

5. How can you complain about a mistake corrected in the first 24 hours of the campaign, that matches the numbers offered in previous campaigns, and provides more availability to backers and customers? Very non-sensible.

You gotta let some things go. Look at how many iterations designers go through just by communicating with collectors here. The only unreasonable change he made on your list was the Legal Tender item. That was a bad campaign, but all things being equal, the artwork was some of his very best.
rousselle wrote:You are a fussy, picky guy.
Lotrek wrote:Given the number of morons produced in the world every day, a pessimist is actually a well informed realist.
Räpylätassu wrote:"Tyhmyydestä sakotetaan." You get fined for being stupid.
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Re: Verum Videre (Jackson Robinson / Kings Wild Project)

Unread post by vasta41 »

Your personal opinions on the Crazy 8 and Texas campaigns are just that- your opinions. The fact is what was promised and what was actually delivered were two different things. I stand corrected on the Tally-Ho projects- when I first came up with this list (with help from hikeeba: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9375&p=112357&hilit ... ic#p112357" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) it was before these issues were rectified. But my general point to all of this is BUYER BEWARE. And as far as letting things go, I'm a stubborn Italian- I let NOTHING go :)
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Re: Verum Videre (Jackson Robinson / Kings Wild Project)

Unread post by RichK »

Vasta,

Add this to your list.

ARTHURIAN
What was offered Signed Key card for those who bought Limited Camelot "Book" Edition
What was sold Unsigned Key card in Display deck

Now I emailed JR and he explained to me he was able to get the unsigned key cards printed and put in display deck which makes sense to me. He did send me an opened display deck and signed the key card but only because I made the effort to contact him. If you have the Limited Camelot Book, which turned out very nice in my opinion, with no signed key card like he said we'd get and want it email him at jackson [at] kingswildproject.com and ask.
Move on, nothing to see here.
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Re: Verum Videre (Jackson Robinson / Kings Wild Project)

Unread post by rousselle »

Some on this thread are saying that there's nothing new/interesting going on with this deck, but didn't the Kardify article say that there would be five metallic inks on the courts? Or, am I misremembering?

Metallic inks are more expensive. It's very rare to see as many as five on a deck (although T11's Purple Jaqk deck looks like it might have four or five, and the effect is pretty awesome. Of course... they do so at high enough quantities to be able to lower the price to $10 per deck....) I look forward to seeing reviews of the deck once it's in people's hands. While I won't be backing any more of Jackson's KS projects, I'm not opposed to purchasing an existing deck if it sounds worthwhile.

So, am I remembering correctly that this deck is supposed to have five metallic inks on the cards themselves (not just the tuck)? I *think* I'm talking about the same deck... but it's early, and I'm tired. I'm sure you all will be kind enough to correct me if I'm wrong.

>ducks<
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Re: Verum Videre (Jackson Robinson / Kings Wild Project)

Unread post by RichK »

Yes, 5 metallic inks on the courts. Seems strange since I don't see 5 colors on what's shown, unless the Diamond/Heart have different colors.
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Re: Verum Videre (Jackson Robinson / Kings Wild Project)

Unread post by rousselle »

All that said, I still have a yen to see JR's Japanese currency deck.
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Re: Verum Videre (Jackson Robinson / Kings Wild Project)

Unread post by RichK »

I hope you're not pounding your fists in anger waiting for JR to finish the England currency deck rousselle.
Move on, nothing to see here.
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Re: Verum Videre (Jackson Robinson / Kings Wild Project)

Unread post by Bikefanatic »

If a designer says that x amount of decks will be available, I usually don't care about what's the actual total because it'll make sense that they'll keep plenty of decks for themselves. Like Giovanni for example.

I seen they're both sold out. I won't buy in the after market either. Interesting how these will be sold.
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Re: Verum Videre (Jackson Robinson / Kings Wild Project)

Unread post by RichK »

1 p.m. EST sale started.
Move on, nothing to see here.
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Re: Verum Videre (Jackson Robinson / Kings Wild Project)

Unread post by vasta41 »

Bikefanatic wrote:If a designer says that x amount of decks will be available, I usually don't care about what's the actual total because it'll make sense that they'll keep plenty of decks for themselves. Like Giovanni for example.

I seen they're both sold out. I won't buy in the after market either. Interesting how these will be sold.
JR has had at least a few overrun sales where the decks are clearly marked as such. So even if there are more decks the "original" ones should be easily identifiable and also not depreciate in value.
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Re: Verum Videre (Jackson Robinson / Kings Wild Project)

Unread post by badpete69 »

RichK wrote:1 p.m. EST sale started.
still Pass..................................

Edit and sold out.......
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Re: Verum Videre (Jackson Robinson / Kings Wild Project)

Unread post by Bradius »

As expected, these went fast. Heck, even if you didnt want the deck, I am sure you could resale the Gold edition for a big markup. I am not so sure though about the White edition, but that will also probably resell well. I am in for a Gold Edition. Maybe I can sell it for a King’s Ransom.
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Re: Verum Videre (Jackson Robinson / Kings Wild Project)

Unread post by Trungbreezy »

I saw these on sale and I couldn't get myself to buy these.
The gold edition was around $48 US and the white edition was $24 US and it honestly didn't look too special to me.
From a outside perspective it looks like he's trying to make money back from his 62 Heidelberg Letter Press.
However this is just my opinion nonetheless people are still going to buy it.
I'm a fan of KWP, but this deck is gonna be a definite pass for me.
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Re: Verum Videre (Jackson Robinson / Kings Wild Project)

Unread post by rousselle »

White Edition currently appears to be available, FWIW.
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Re: Verum Videre (Jackson Robinson / Kings Wild Project)

Unread post by alric »

Bikefanatic wrote:If a designer says that x amount of decks will be available, I usually don't care about what's the actual total because it'll make sense that they'll keep plenty of decks for themselves. Like Giovanni for example.

I seen they're both sold out. I won't buy in the after market either. Interesting how these will be sold.
I don't mind if a designer keeps some decks in reserve for themselves, either. But I don't like it when someone actually prints 2500 to 5000 decks, and then sells them with artificial rarity by saying "only 700 available" causing people to think, "Oh shit, this deck is ultra rare!" Then some months later they'll sell them again saying "only 700 available", over and over again. We've seen D$D and T11 pull this bullshit in the past. If Jackson only printed 1000 white decks and only 72 gold decks somehow, then its all good. But if he's got over 2000+ of these fuckers and he tries to sell them again, or put them in different tucks and re-sell them, then he's just full of shit, regardless of how many Bible verses he quotes. The only positive I see here is that he's staying off Kickstarter. Although I guess all this accomplishes is that we'll be disappointed in a matter of weeks instead of 9 to 12 months later. That, and he doesn't have to give Kickstarter any share of his profits.....
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Re: Verum Videre (Jackson Robinson / Kings Wild Project)

Unread post by Bruno »

Stop stamping your feet boyo. :lol: :lol: :lol:
O, I beg of you your comprehensions,
yet laugh at your contempts ....
my only competition is with myselves.

But Lèse-majesté, especially >Normans, natch.

Is jarnstill the Ars of the Hors Nebulous ?
Neigh .... the Effluxor of the Omniverse ??
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Re: Verum Videre (Jackson Robinson / Kings Wild Project)

Unread post by alric »

Bruno wrote:Stop stamping your feet boyo. :lol: :lol: :lol:
This unproductive, trollish comment was so predictable. As will be the follow-up. smh
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Re: Verum Videre (Jackson Robinson / Kings Wild Project)

Unread post by Bruno »

Have a cuppa man.
Kings Wild can produce and sell more of whatever in whatever numbers they want, that is a practical fact.

Your mendacious negativity counts for nought.
Say what you like, however you want, you are still an unproducing nobody.
Create, if you can.
O, I beg of you your comprehensions,
yet laugh at your contempts ....
my only competition is with myselves.

But Lèse-majesté, especially >Normans, natch.

Is jarnstill the Ars of the Hors Nebulous ?
Neigh .... the Effluxor of the Omniverse ??
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Re: Verum Videre (Jackson Robinson / Kings Wild Project)

Unread post by shaitani »

alric wrote: ...
Then some months later they'll sell them again saying "only 700 available", over and over again. We've seen D$D and T11 pull this bullshit in the past.
I've only been collecting a relatively short time so i might not have experienced what you're talking about. But, can you provide specific examples for these two sellers?

I know for sure Ellusionist does this, I can pull up emails where they've outright lied, but I've never seen Theory 11 do it. Dan and Dave do some grandiose talking about their decks (which I consider completely legitimate) but I've also never heard them lie to or trick their customers.
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Re: Verum Videre (Jackson Robinson / Kings Wild Project)

Unread post by alric »

alric wrote:
Bruno wrote:Stop stamping your feet boyo. :lol: :lol: :lol:
This unproductive, trollish comment was so predictable. As will be the follow-up. smh
And right on cue:
Bruno wrote:Have a cuppa man.
Your mendacious negativity counts for nought.
Say what you like, however you want, you are still an unproducing nobody.
Create, if you can.
As I said, so predictable. You just can't help yourself, can you, Bruno? You always have to have the last trollish word, you just can't shut up. Speaking of unproducing nobodies, 90% of your posts are unintelligible, and the other 10% is just sucking up to designers. Seriously, what do you contribute here at UC, aside from hijacking threads with your babbling? I've had enough of you, so I'm going to block you so I don't have to see your petty retort to this post, or anything else from you ever again. Fare well, childishly intemperate Bruno, have fun playing in your mom's basement.
That is all.
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Re: Verum Videre (Jackson Robinson / Kings Wild Project)

Unread post by alric »

shaitani wrote:
alric wrote: ...
Then some months later they'll sell them again saying "only 700 available", over and over again. We've seen D$D and T11 pull this bullshit in the past.
I've only been collecting a relatively short time so i might not have experienced what you're talking about. But, can you provide specific examples for these two sellers?

I know for sure Ellusionist does this, I can pull up emails where they've outright lied, but I've never seen Theory 11 do it. Dan and Dave do some grandiose talking about their decks (which I consider completely legitimate) but I've also never heard them lie to or trick their customers.
D$D are probably the worst offenders. Just look back at the red Smoke & Mirrors (v.6). Dan and Dave advertised, as they had with their previous decks, that the v.6 is also super limited, never to be printed again. They sold thousands and then claimed to be sold out. About 6 months later, they claimed they found a few more bricks somehow stashed away un-noticed in their attic, and then sold thousands more. You can't make this stuff up, they actually claimed they somehow found more decks in their attic! With every version of the S&M decks, they swore they would never re-print them again, then they went ahead and reprinted the entire series - 10,000 of each version!

Say what you will about E (and they're plenty full of shit), but at least they were transparent enough to disclose the print runs on their decks so we would actually know if they were in fact "limited" or not. With the exception of the White Centurions, T11 never disclosed the print runs of any of their "limited" decks. The only reason they finally gave up the print run of the White Cents was because it was probably the only deck that was in fact printed in actual limited numbers.
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Re: Verum Videre (Jackson Robinson / Kings Wild Project)

Unread post by Adonael »

alric wrote:Fare well, childishly intemperate Bruno
I just saw the flag on his profile, and on behalf of Australia I would like to apologise for his existence. Put the population of Florida into a land the size of the US, where all of nature is trying to kill you, and there are a lot of places a man can lose his mind in the outback. That's why should I ever travel the country it'll be along the coast for the most part, Wolf Creek is a good example of why, the Bruno's out there are scary when there isn't a keyboard between you and them.
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Re: Verum Videre (Jackson Robinson / Kings Wild Project)

Unread post by Bruno »

John Jarrett, nice fellah !
An actual actor, and a great Australian
Not many of us left.
O, I beg of you your comprehensions,
yet laugh at your contempts ....
my only competition is with myselves.

But Lèse-majesté, especially >Normans, natch.

Is jarnstill the Ars of the Hors Nebulous ?
Neigh .... the Effluxor of the Omniverse ??
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Re: Verum Videre (Jackson Robinson / Kings Wild Project)

Unread post by shaitani »

alric wrote:
shaitani wrote:
alric wrote: ...
Then some months later they'll sell them again saying "only 700 available", over and over again. We've seen D$D and T11 pull this bullshit in the past.
I've only been collecting a relatively short time so i might not have experienced what you're talking about. But, can you provide specific examples for these two sellers?

I know for sure Ellusionist does this, I can pull up emails where they've outright lied, but I've never seen Theory 11 do it. Dan and Dave do some grandiose talking about their decks (which I consider completely legitimate) but I've also never heard them lie to or trick their customers.
D$D are probably the worst offenders. Just look back at the red Smoke & Mirrors (v.6). Dan and Dave advertised, as they had with their previous decks, that the v.6 is also super limited, never to be printed again. They sold thousands and then claimed to be sold out. About 6 months later, they claimed they found a few more bricks somehow stashed away un-noticed in their attic, and then sold thousands more. You can't make this stuff up, they actually claimed they somehow found more decks in their attic! With every version of the S&M decks, they swore they would never re-print them again, then they went ahead and reprinted the entire series - 10,000 of each version!

Say what you will about E (and they're plenty full of shit), but at least they were transparent enough to disclose the print runs on their decks so we would actually know if they were in fact "limited" or not. With the exception of the White Centurions, T11 never disclosed the print runs of any of their "limited" decks. The only reason they finally gave up the print run of the White Cents was because it was probably the only deck that was in fact printed in actual limited numbers.
Wow, so I've never bought a smoke and mirrors deck before, but I didn't know about the "we found more in our attic" play, that move is pretty douchey. It's a clear attempt to manipulate the rarity and interest if it's true.

Regarding Theory 11, I don't consider non-disclosure of print numbers to be a douchebag thing to do. I mean, we all know they print a huuge number of everything in order to be able to sell their gold foil decks at $10 a pop and still make money. But I'd rather the company tell me nothing about the number, which just leaves it to me whether I want the deck or not, than to purposely mislead or outright lie about the numbers.

Ellusionist on the other hand is absolutely NOT transparent, they constantly mess around with their numbers, for example when Madison Select came out, they played the pronoun game by making this claim: "With only 2,000 box sets produced". Well, this is bad grammar, so it is purposely constructed to make the reader believe there is only 2000 of each of the decks inside. But of course, not long after they released another 500 or whatever of each because "obviously" there were more decks they claimed, so that 2000 claim is for the literal box that the contents are being sold in. I shouldn't have to put on my lawyer glasses to figure out what the hell they mean with their numbers. If they were being transparent they'd tell us exactly how many of each deck were produced.

Now, I personally hope JR isn't playing the same kind of grammar game, but as of right now the page for the White Edition actually says "only 900 white editions produced". I'm not sure if he made a correction or what but that's a lot clearer. If I had to bet I'd say he did a print of 1000 of the Verum Videre decks total, and then put 900 in white tucks, 72 in the gold tucks, and then kept some number of the 28 remaining ones for himself or for another edition or for future sales or whatever.
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Re: Verum Videre (Jackson Robinson / Kings Wild Project)

Unread post by Bradius »

Now, I personally hope JR isn't playing the same kind of grammar game, but as of right now the page for the White Edition actually says "only 900 white editions produced". I'm not sure if he made a correction or what but that's a lot clearer. If I had to bet I'd say he did a print of 1000 of the Verum Videre decks total, and then put 900 in white tucks, 72 in the gold tucks, and then kept some number of the 28 remaining ones for himself or for another edition or for future sales or whatever.
It is my guess too that he had just 1,000 of the decks printed. I am making a reasonable guess that it is not near as costly to print in metallic ink instead of using foil. In this case, I think he is using his reputation and rarity to make a high price point. If he sells out, and I think he will, it will bring him in about $25,000, which should net him a nice profit after the printing cost for the decks without the tucks, the supplies for him to print the tucks himself. Shipping and handling is extra, so that hopefully is a net wash.

I noticed that Jackson Robinson is trying to get more engaged in the actual process of printing and assembing his decks, which is admerable. However, I think he has a long way to go to catch up to Lotrek who practically lives in the printer's factory when his decks are printed and applies his own varnish on the cards. I can't imagine what it took to make those first foil backed cards, and then take it further to make the Golden Oath deck with JUST foil. I think of how Sunish and Lotrek are so involved with the printing of the actual cards, which is what I really like to see in truly custom playing cards. I am just wondering what Alex Chen can do if he ever puts some of his magic on a 3D printer...

BTW, I did get a message that my order has been shipped, so I should have it early next week as I live practically next door to Austin.
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Re: Verum Videre (Jackson Robinson / Kings Wild Project)

Unread post by theCapraAegagrus »

There's a constant fog around here that consistently clouds the judgment of many. It reminds me of so many people who forget that athletes are also just humans.

Some people's passions take over their lives. Lotrek and Sunish seem to be those types of people. I am, too, one of those people. There are also other types of people that choose to, or have to, dedicate more time to their families and personal lives as opposed to their careers. JR seems to be that type of person in the last couple of years.

My older bother is one of those people, too. He committed so much time to IT/PCs/Games, but then he got married and inherited a step-child, and just spends the bare minimum on what used to be the biggest part of him.

Maybe Lotrek and Sunish have families, could even be big families, but that doesn't seem to change anything for them. I don't like to make things personal around here, but when you start taking humanity out of the artistic equation of things like collecting and sports, then you're not appreciating or accounting for the genesis of that person's work or passion.
rousselle wrote:You are a fussy, picky guy.
Lotrek wrote:Given the number of morons produced in the world every day, a pessimist is actually a well informed realist.
Räpylätassu wrote:"Tyhmyydestä sakotetaan." You get fined for being stupid.
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Re: Verum Videre (Jackson Robinson / Kings Wild Project)

Unread post by sinjin7 »

Trying to find the balance between passion for work and family is all good and fine. Trying to make as much money as you can is also fine. I don't knock Jackson for any of those things. Paul posted a list of issues Jackson had with past campaigns, and really you can go much further back to the Moriarty deck in his Sherlock Holmes series to see when he first started to go off the rails. All those things are water under the bridge for me. How he runs his business is 100% up to him and none of my business.

But the one thing I can't let slide is him printing cards in China and then putting them in tucks that claim the cards were printed in Taiwan, and then not clearing up that fraud even though he's had ample time to do so. He HAD to know the cards were being printed in China, and he HAD to know the tucks said they were printed in Taiwan. The fact that he let it go tells me he made a conscious decision to commit fraud. Since the release and sale of his Legal Tender decks, I've personally implored him to set the record straight on his KS page as well as his website so no one else is mislead, and he purposefully continues to perpetrate the deception. I hate to sound like a broken record on this, but to me, this speaks to a serious defect in character. I've based my decision to no longer support Jackson and his products not on how he prices his decks, or whether I like his art, or his ignorant arrogance in telling us to #practicemore, or him not delivering on what he promised. I want nothing to do with Jackson because he lacks the moral compass to make the ethical decision to correct his fraudulent behaviour despite all of his righteous Biblical quotations. I just can't see myself rationalizing away this hypocrisy because he happens to make a pretty deck every now and then.

I am taking a principled pass on this ironically named deck.
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Re: Verum Videre (Jackson Robinson / Kings Wild Project)

Unread post by Bradius »

The decks came in.

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Re: Verum Videre (Jackson Robinson / Kings Wild Project)

Unread post by theCapraAegagrus »

Bradius wrote:The decks came in.

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Meh. The more I look at them, the blander they become. I'm glad that I didn't go in on these (plus I told myself to abandon JR decks).
rousselle wrote:You are a fussy, picky guy.
Lotrek wrote:Given the number of morons produced in the world every day, a pessimist is actually a well informed realist.
Räpylätassu wrote:"Tyhmyydestä sakotetaan." You get fined for being stupid.
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