Pike and Clover

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Pike and Clover

Unread post by shimmering »

I am going to post something about the latest project I have been working on. It is another one-way old-style deck ... and this time I have been creating cards in the style of the old Tarot de Marseille cards.

I wanted to have suit symbols drawn in such a way that the court figures could interact with them, similarly to what is seen with the spanish/italian suits in the playing cards from those countries as well as in tarot cards. So as well as hearts and diamonds, the clubs are drawn as clover, and the spades as pike heads.

I have drawn the face cards in a TdM style, but fans of the standard English playing card pattern may notice something familiar in the poses.

Here are a couple of pics of a few of the cards so you get an idea ... with added corner indices and wider poker-size dimensions. And also a rough mock-up of a box --- the pattern on the box is basically the same as the card back design (but the card back won't have the label on of course). There are one or two more pics on the instagram link below if anyone's keen to see a bit more.

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Re: Pike and Clover --- soon

Unread post by RoyalSecretCards »

Not a common deck, interesting old-style cards, but personally I don't like it this kind of design, anyways good job on it's style.
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Re: Pike and Clover --- soon

Unread post by Räpylätassu »

Looks great! Take the indexes out, go full old school!
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Re: Pike and Clover --- soon

Unread post by RichK »

Roman 4 is IV.
Move on, nothing to see here.
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Re: Pike and Clover --- soon

Unread post by badpete69 »

RichK wrote:Roman 4 is IV.
and just in case 9 is IX
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Re: Pike and Clover --- soon

Unread post by vedus »

Roman and Justin Case, NY Detectives
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Re: Pike and Clover --- soon

Unread post by intlgrrl »

HI Ian,

I look forward to seeing how this deck turns out. Good work so far!
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Re: Pike and Clover --- soon

Unread post by Jock1971 »

Nice ....I`ll be in on these :)

Not a fan of the roman numerals on the sides.
Any reason you are not doing these in Watercolours like your previous decks ?
Are these going to be printed by Carta Mundi ?...they did a pretty good job on your viceroys.
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Re: Pike and Clover --- soon

Unread post by Bruno »

I'm liking this work, yeh ....
Understand the pike as toothy fish, curious as to what the pike and clover references ?
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Re: Pike and Clover --- soon

Unread post by Azazaaz »

RichK wrote:Roman 4 is IV.
Yes, of course that is right but all of my Marseille tarot decks have the fours written as "IIII". The Rider Waites I have bear the "normal" "IV" numeral. As this deck is based on a Marseille tarot deck, "IIII" is indeed correct. But if anybody knows the history behind this, I'd be more than happy to learn as I couldn't find a reliable source on this very subject.

Interesting project, it doesn't strictly follow the rules of a tarot deck, and I like this a lot. The inspiration taken from the Marseille decks is there but it doesn't have the standard 4 colors printing, the standard tarot suits, it seems like there will be no major arcana cards, etc... I know I'll have some uses for such a deck.
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Re: Pike and Clover --- soon

Unread post by Bruno »

IIII/iiii and IV/iv .... all are correct .... no hard/fast rule there.
In the introductory pages to older books both lower case letters might be found ....

So, why the name Pike and Clover ?
O, I beg of you your comprehensions,
yet laugh at your contempts ....
my only competition is with myselves.

But Lèse-majesté, especially >Normans, natch.

Is jarnstill the Ars of the Hors Nebulous ?
Neigh .... the Effluxor of the Omniverse ??
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Re: Pike and Clover --- soon

Unread post by sashado »

I like it very much!
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Re: Pike and Clover --- soon

Unread post by shimmering »

Many thanks for all your comments! Let me see what I can answer ...

Index free: yes, I am tempted to go index free with a deck, though I fear it would make things less appealing for some.

The Roman numerals: Roman numerals appear on some Tarot de Marseille cards, vertically aligned at the sides of the cards, similar to what I have shown above, but inside the frame. These are certainly there to help with the counting of the pips, but typically they are not there on every card.

So I added Roman numerals to the white space in the margin that comes from having the indices. Maybe they could be shrunk a little.

Roman numeral usage was not always as uniform as it is necessarily taught nowadays, and purely additive numerals, like IIII (and yes, VIIII, which I have also used), were not uncommon. And as Azazaaz says, on Tarot de Marseille cards such additive numbers seem to have been the norm. Where Roman numerals were used to number the trump suit as well, 14 and 19 tend to be written as XIIII and XVIIII. If I was to speculate about the reason for this, I would say that it could be less ambiguous in reading something that is not written horizontally. But I don't know. Also, as an aside, it seems that in preparing the woodcut blocks that were used to print traditional Tarot de Marseille cards, an engraver would sometimes copy a print rather than an old woodblock, so that the new woodblock would come out as a mirror image of the old one. I am pretty sure I saw pictures of cards with IV for 6 which would probably have been the result of this.


Jase, I'm glad to have tempted you out of posting retirement! :-) I will probably get Cartamundi to do the printing again, yes. For me, that seemed to work OK. As for the colours, I wanted to try something different ...

Azazaaz mentions the colours: this is probably not obvious from the few cards I've shown above, but the colour scheme is based on 5 colours. 3 colours for the pip cards (depending on the suit), and 4 or 5 for the aces and court cards.

Paige, I saw you posted about this on the other forum. Thanks! I should maybe go there and say something as well.

Bruno, Pike and Clover comes from the descriptions of the Spades and Clubs suits and how they are named in French. It is these two suits that are drawn most "differently" from the usual stencil-derived shapes, or drawn in a way that their English names perhaps don't immediately suggest. A pike is a long spear, and the French name for this French suit is pique, as the suit symbol resembles a spear head. And in French clubs are trefle, which means clover. That's it!
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Re: Pike and Clover --- soon

Unread post by rousselle »

I am very much liking what I am seeing here, and look forward to seeing more. I expect I will likely back this project.

FWIW, I think I would be more likely to buy more decks if there *are* indexes, because indexes make the deck much more playable (and, while I do like to collect cards, I particularly like to play cards, too, esp. with unusual-but-still-playable decks.)

I totally get the reason for using IIII as opposede to IV, and I think either one would be fine with me.
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Re: Pike and Clover --- soon

Unread post by flashcards »

I love the design and the new take on the old style. I personally would love to see this printed at a quality printer like USPCC. Then it would be better than "okay", it would be incredible! This way you would end up with an actual card deck that could be used comfortably in magic and even cardistry. I know the pros and cons of USPCC but if Giovanni can print Lunatica with them, I'm guessing they could probably handle your deck as well. It might be something worth looking into.
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Re: Pike and Clover --- soon

Unread post by Adonael »

Really digging that tuck.
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Re: Pike and Clover --- soon

Unread post by Olethros »

RichK wrote:Roman 4 is IV.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_num ... tive_forms" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On the subject, I really like this deck! Please show us more soon.
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Re: Pike and Clover --- soon

Unread post by Mankin »

Interesting design, I like the tuckbox pattern.
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Re: Pike and Clover --- soon

Unread post by intlgrrl »

Hmm,

I have to say I agree with flashcards, USPCC would be a good choice or maybe Legends. Just something to think about.
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Re: Pike and Clover --- soon

Unread post by portcullis »

News? Presuming now the launch will be in the New Year, we don't want Xmas getting in the way, do we??
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Re: Pike and Clover --- soon

Unread post by shimmering »

Yep ... there's news. Launch today. It's on now.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/73 ... ying-cards" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Pike and Clover --- soon

Unread post by intlgrrl »

Yay!
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Re: Pike and Clover --- soon

Unread post by Adonael »

I also love the tuck, and definitely want in, right before christmas might not be the best launch window though, which is why it's strange seeing damn near a dozen new deck projects show up this week. I know for me I don't have anything left for these projects and have to just put them on the wishlist and hope I see a deck on ebay in a year or two lol.
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Re: Pike and Clover --- soon

Unread post by vedus »

Or... It's live right now.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/73 ... ying-cards" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Pike and Clover --- soon

Unread post by portcullis »

Well don't I feel stupid!
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Re: Pike and Clover --- now live on KS

Unread post by shimmering »

I don't think correctly anticipating the launch moment after weeks of radio silence on my part and helpfully placing the thread at the top of the list is any reason to feel stupid ...... anyway, glad you're in!
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Re: Pike and Clover --- now live on KS

Unread post by Azazaaz »

In for a pair! Love the art, the tuck, everything!
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Re: Pike and Clover --- now live on KS

Unread post by portcullis »

shimmering wrote:I don't think correctly anticipating the launch moment after weeks of radio silence on my part and helpfully placing the thread at the top of the list is any reason to feel stupid ...... anyway, glad you're in!
*Theme to the Twilight Zone*

I honestly thought being this close to Xmas you might delay it just slightly. Seems to be the season for "ahhhh, we'll do that next year."
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Re: Pike and Clover --- now live on KS

Unread post by cherrynukacola »

Love these. Traditional, yet modern.
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Re: Pike and Clover --- now live on KS

Unread post by shimmering »

Many thanks to all from UC who have supported this project.

For anyone else interested, the latest two updates have pictures of two joker cards. You can see them here:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/73 ... ts/2055779" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and here:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/73 ... ts/2052123" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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