Framing/Hanging Uncut Sheets

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Framing/Hanging Uncut Sheets

Unread postby RSLancastr » Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:17 pm  

I hope this is the correct subforum for this topic/thread. Here goes:

I have long wanted to purchase some uncut sheets to frame and hang on the walls of my home, but never got around to purchasing any until this month, when I (through blatant hinting) got my wife to buy me an uncut sheet of the Bicycle Cigar deck for Christmas.

It just arrived. I have yet to even open the mailing tube in which it arrived.

Do any of you have any advice or suggestions regarding the framing and hanging of uncut sheets (type of frame, etcetera)?

Thanks,

-RSL
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Re: Framing/Hanging Uncut Sheets

Unread postby Bikefanatic » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:30 am  

I thought about getting the Black Book Of Cards uncut since I like black and white stuff. I'll worry about it getting ruined while delivered. I wonder if it's better to have a framed picture sent or to get it framed at your local framing shop.
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Re: Framing/Hanging Uncut Sheets

Unread postby sinjin7 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:17 am  

Mailing something as big as a framed uncut sheet will be prohibitively expensive, its much better to have the uncut sheet mailed in a tube and then take it to your local framer. My ideal way to have uncut sheets framed is too have them sandwiched between two panes of glass or acrylic or plexiglass. The panes can be affixed to each other at the corners and I wouldn't even need a frame bordering the glass for a clean, minimalistic appearance. Since its glass on both sides, I can flip it around to display either the front or back of the uncut sheet.
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Re: Framing/Hanging Uncut Sheets

Unread postby RSLancastr » Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:47 am  

Bikefanatic wrote:I thought about getting the Black Book Of Cards uncut since I like black and white stuff. I'll worry about it getting ruined while delivered. I wonder if it's better to have a framed picture sent or to get it framed at your local framing shop.


I think that getting it sent, pre-framed, would be even more prone to be damaged, given how brittle a large pane of glass like that can be.

Also, I would prefer all of mine to be framed in the same way (or at least a matching way), rather than each framed in whatever way its vendor framed it.

Thanks for the input!

sinjin7 wrote:Mailing something as big as a framed uncut sheet will be prohibitively expensive, its much better to have the uncut sheet mailed in a tube and then take it to your local framer. My ideal way to have uncut sheets framed is too have them sandwiched between two panes of glass or acrylic or plexiglass. The panes can be affixed to each other at the corners and I wouldn't even need a frame bordering the glass for a clean, minimalistic appearance. Since its glass on both sides, I can flip it around to display either the front or back of the uncut sheet.


I was wondering about doing a "two-sided" frame as well. Given a large enough room, such a frame could even be suspended from the ceiling, letting visitors walk around it and view it from either side!

I was sorta hoping that such two-sided frames are sold that way, rather than having to be made to order.

So, have you actually done this, or were you just describing how you hope one day to do it?

Thanks,

-RSL
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Re: Framing/Hanging Uncut Sheets

Unread postby UtterFool » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:16 am  

I too wanted to go with a two sided frame.
I unfortunately have yet to find a mass produced two sided frame that is large enough to hold an uncut sheet.
I have also found that frame stores do not like to do two sided frames and make the already prohibitively expensive custom frame even more so.

I had worked out a design for a two sided frame that looked the same from either side (most have an obvious back and front) but unfortunately I no longer have the wood shop to make it myself.

My suggestion is wait until Michaels or some other art store has a frame sale, they usually have some sort of frame sale once a month and usually 2 or 3 times a year you can get mass produced frames upwards of 60% off. Then just pay for a custom cut matte (at the same art supply store). You need the matte because the mass produced frames do not come in uncut sheet size, they are however 10X cheaper than custome even when not on sale. This way you buy out the stock on a particular frame and have all of your uncuts in the same frame. The mass produced frames are nothing too fancy but you don't want the frame distracting from the art of the uncut anyway.

That is what I did
If it helps.
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Re: Framing/Hanging Uncut Sheets

Unread postby cosmicsecret » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:56 am  

I bought my Frames from IKEA.
They are a bit larger then the actuall sheets.
As long as you center the sheets inside the frame and put a black background (thin cardboard from art supply stores) everything looks good.
I paid per frame around 15€ (20USD).
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Re: Framing/Hanging Uncut Sheets

Unread postby RSLancastr » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:22 am  

UtterFool wrote:My suggestion is wait until Michaels or some other art store has a frame sale, they usually have some sort of frame sale once a month and usually 2 or 3 times a year you can get mass produced frames upwards of 60% off.


Good advice, thanks!

When I lived in Southern California, a chain called Aaron Brothers Art Mart would run a sale every few months wherein you could buy one frame, and then get any other frame in the store (of equal or lesser list price) for a penny. It was a great way to stock up on matching frames! I have yet to see an Aaron Brothers since we moved up here to Oregon. Guess I'll check their we site and see,,,

Then just pay for a custom cut matte (at the same art supply store). You need the matte because the mass produced frames do not come in uncut sheet size, they are however 10X cheaper than custome even when not on sale. This way you buy out the stock on a particular frame and have all of your uncuts in the same frame. The mass produced frames are nothing too fancy but you don't want the frame distracting from the art of the uncut anyway.

That is what I did
If it helps.


It does, thanks again!

Do you happen to have any pics of these which you can post?
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Re: Framing/Hanging Uncut Sheets

Unread postby BiggerDee » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:27 am  

Hobby Lobby will occasionally put their frames on 50% off but even if they don't, they always have a 40% off of a single item coupon on their app or website. The 22x28 frames are almost perfect, maybe an inch or two too long in one direction. I use the solid black Exhibition series, and the sheets look great, no mat needed. They wind up being about $20-$25, and are good quality. I ahve several sheets hanging in the stairway down to my gameroom/theater area in my house, and i always get compliments on them. Cheap and easy framing!

BTW, these could probablt be converted to two-sided easily. Get a 22x28 sheet of glass cut at Lowe's and use it for the backing on the frames, instead of the cardboard. Small black nails/tacks could carefully be used to hold the back pane in. That extra glass would probably be around $10-12 at Lowe's or Home Depot, probably cheaper from a glass company. Target has the two sided frames (glass on glass, and you sandwich the item in-between the panes), but I've never checked to see if they have a size large enough to accommodate sheets. They intend the frames to be used to make the object have a floating appearance, but I don't see why you couldn't just use it to display whatever side that you wanted to.

To go ultra cheap, get two plastic poster frames and sandwich the sheets between the clear sheets of plexi, and then snap the edge pieces around the sides. You'd have to devise a way to hang it though. Maybe set it on a ledge, or on one of those wall-mount shelves.
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Re: Framing/Hanging Uncut Sheets

Unread postby framegod » Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:45 pm  

The best thing to do is use Metal Frames with Acid free mats and plexi glass. You don't have to have the mats be cut exactly the same size, one side will not visable to the other. Plexi will not be as heavy as glass, but the mat must be acid-free to keep the uncut shhets free from corrosion over time. After the mats are cut and the uncut sheets are placed between the plexi the plexi is taped together with acid free tape leaving a small place for the mat and the uncut sheets to breath. Make sure not to tape the uncut sheets down, use corner stays or an other form acid free mounting for art. Then you slide the sandwiched piece into the metal frame and finish the assembly of the frame and then hang were you want abdle to take down and show both sides at anytime.

If you make sure to stay with fixed number for a frame 22x28 or 23x29 or any solid number you can get the metal frames in bulk cheaper online or on sale the just worry about the mats when you need them. See about getting the plexi from another dealer buying in bulk saves you money all the time or knowing how to do it yourself,

Hope this helped some
Thank you,
Jeff


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Re: Framing/Hanging Uncut Sheets

Unread postby Mike Ratledge » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:42 pm  

USPCC lists the size as 'about 22" wide and 26" tall' which is pretty close, but not exact. If you want to go with something pretty much with thin borders, the size you're looking for is around 24" x 28" which is not a standard size for frames, but you can find that size if you look hard enough. The big thing to point out here is that if you can find a custom size frame with a 22x26" picture size, you're not going to have to spend more money on the mat(s). Some people just prefer to have things they frame matted, or even double-matted. It's up to you (and your budget). You can spend anything you want, from around $15 to $500 (or more) to frame an uncut sheet, but let's assume that for what we're talking about we're going to limit the top end at around $100 - and that's a going to allow you to get a pretty fancy frame, matting and everything else (glass or plexiglass may or may not be included, you have to look at each offering to know).

Depending on just how fancy you want to go and your budget, it's pretty much dependent on you as to how much you spend, and the range can be outrageous from the basic frame to the finished product with mat, glass and everything else. Be sure that you use as mentioned by others an acid-free paper when/if you get the mat, and again - those can go from basic ($5) to fancy ($20) to very pricey - $50-$75 or more before you go adding the glass or plexiglass if it's not a part of the original frame. Of course, depending on the colors in the uncut and whether or not it has metallic inks, you might be looking for something with gold or silver border to accentuate that.

Here's a very basic frame from amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/Craig-Frames-1WB3BK-22x26-Inch-Picture/dp/B002BWD7L4/ref=sr_1_2_m?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1387249001&sr=1-2&keywords=22x26+picture+frame. It shows a list price of $50.99 and a selling price of $33.99, which just goes to show that there is a large markup on frames, and framing supplies in general. If you happen to know "someone in the business", you're definitely going to be able to do it for less than if you walk into a framing shop off the street! This particular one has a plain & simple 1" wide matte black border, but of course you can go crazy and use something that matches the colors in the uncut and get yourself up to some outrageous numbers just for the frame itself. Here's another source from "ArtToFrame": http://www.arttoframe.com. Doing a search there for 22x26" frames comes up with 170 results that range from $30 to $40 for a basic frame up to around $80 for the top end elaborate frame including the plexiglass, backing and hanging wire with grommets for the back of the frame described as "Mahogany and Black" and looks like this:
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Re: Framing/Hanging Uncut Sheets

Unread postby Yashi » Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:12 am  

I posted this earlier on playingcardforum.com and now here since I want to know the best of both worlds. Anyway,...

Would anyone know if laminating uncut sheets would damage them in anyway? Long term or short term damage?
I don't own any uncuts yet but I'm planning on buying a few over a couple of months. The thing with framing them is that they only show one side of the uncut. I haven't really thought it through yet but I was thinking on something like a swivel display (see picture) where you could flip through the different uncuts, remove them from the swivel and place them back at anytime.
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Re: Framing/Hanging Uncut Sheets

Unread postby Mike Ratledge » Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:31 am  

Yashi wrote:I posted this earlier on playingcardforum.com and now here since I want to know the best of both worlds. Anyway,...

Would anyone know if laminating uncut sheets would damage them in anyway? Long term or short term damage?
I don't own any uncuts yet but I'm planning on buying a few over a couple of months. The thing with framing them is that they only show one side of the uncut. I haven't really thought it through yet but I was thinking on something like a swivel display (see picture) where you could flip through the different uncuts, remove them from the swivel and place them back at anytime.
Image

I like the swivel idea, but lamination is just going to gunk things up, pretty certain. That being said, I've never tried it, but I would suspect that the result would be slow deterioration unless you used very thick laminate, in which case it's encased in plastic, really - probably good for our lifetimes, anyway.
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Late Backers Link
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Contact ecNate for details and access


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Re: Framing/Hanging Uncut Sheets

Unread postby montecarlojoe » Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:38 am  

The laminators I've seen in our office pull the paper / cards through rollers to compress the content and plastic together - I don't know if that would damage the repetitively thick / stiff stock used in playing cards or it the bending would pop any the perforations. The plastic is also heated to allow it to adhere properly - I guess it's possible this could affect the coating used on the cards? (No real idea - but the possibility would concern me)

It's definitely a one way process though - no real coming back! I don't know if I could bring myself to risk it!
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Re: Framing/Hanging Uncut Sheets

Unread postby vixentorgames » Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:19 pm  

You could just do like my son did - pay 50 bucks for an uncut sheet and then thumb-tack it to the wall in his room.

Though I am actually reading this thread, because I have some uncut sheets I would like to frame myself.
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Re: Framing/Hanging Uncut Sheets

Unread postby Yashi » Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:18 am  

Using a thumb-tack on an uncut would be like piercing my heart. :)

Thanks for all your inputs guys. I'll think and look into it deeper.
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Re: Framing/Hanging Uncut Sheets

Unread postby RSLancastr » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:46 pm  

Hey, I just now noticed the recent posts here - thanks!

?'s post about laminating uncuts and putting them into a binder reminded me of a display mechanism I once saw which was extremely cool, but too expensive for home use (although some less-expensive version of it might be doable:

Back in 1999, I was doing a Y2K bug-fixing tour of some of my client's European divisions.

I spent a week at their Paris division, during which I was able to sneak in a side trip to the Playing Card Museum in Issy-Les-Moulineaux, about thirty miles south of Paris.

It's a WONDERFUL place which I would highly recommend to anyone with an interest in playing cards or art.

They had so many hundreds of decks on display, they had (at least) a couple of problems:

1. Even limiting the wall space devoted to each deck to an area say, 2' x 3', they would run out of wall space before they ran out of beautiful decks to display.

2. Hanging such displays on the walls would subject the cards (some of which were more than a century old) to the fading effects of room lighting, not to mention that of any flash photography (which was strictly prohibited, but still...)

They addressed both problems in a way which is best described by describing how a visitor experiences the displays:

Each display area had you standing before a wooden cabinet with a 2' x 3' window into it. there was a numbered list of each of the four or five decks viewable therein, and those numbers corresponded to a row of buttons on the front of the cabinet.

You would press the number of the deck/display you wished to see, and a 2' x 3' display of the cards from that deck was lifted up to where you could see it in the window. It stayed there for, say, thirty seconds (or until another buutton was pushed), and then was lowered back out of view (and thus, out of the light).

Wihle designing and building such a system would probably be too costly for home use, I think that the concept itself is sound, particularly with uncut sheets.
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Re: Framing/Hanging Uncut Sheets

Unread postby Yashi » Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:01 am  

RSLancastr wrote:I spent a week at their Paris division, during which I was able to sneak in a side trip to the Playing Card Museum in Issy-Les-Moulineaux, about thirty miles south of Paris.

It's a WONDERFUL place which I would highly recommend to anyone with an interest in playing cards or art.

That's on my bucket list then. :)

Sounds pretty cool but I think part of the experience would be holding the deck in your hands. So even if it wasn't as costly, I probably wouldn't use it for home use.
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Re: Framing/Hanging Uncut Sheets

Unread postby RSLancastr » Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:55 am  

Yashi wrote:
RSLancastr wrote:I spent a week at their Paris division, during which I was able to sneak in a side trip to the Playing Card Museum in Issy-Les-Moulineaux, about thirty miles south of Paris.

It's a WONDERFUL place which I would highly recommend to anyone with an interest in playing cards or art.

That's on my bucket list then. :)

Sounds pretty cool but I think part of the experience would be holding the deck in your hands. So even if it wasn't as costly, I probably wouldn't use it for home use.


Agreed, but this thread is about displaying uncut sheets, and THAT was what I was thinking of using such a setup for at home. The thought being that each uncut sheet would be hanging, hidden, within the cabinet thing, viewable at the touch of a button which would raise the sheet into view.

In the museum, the touch of the button raised a display of many cards from a deck, displayed/mounted somehow on a (roughly) 2' x 3' poster. I would think that it would work well to display an actual uncut sheet rather than something upon which cards had been somehow mounted.

Best of luck with that bucket list, btw. If I HAD a bucket list, a visit to the Fournier Playing Card Museum in Vittoria, Spain would be on it.
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Re: Framing/Hanging Uncut Sheets

Unread postby RSLancastr » Fri May 02, 2014 1:25 am  

cosmicsecret wrote:I bought my Frames from IKEA.
They are a bit larger then the actuall sheets.
As long as you center the sheets inside the frame and put a black background (thin cardboard from art supply stores) everything looks good.
I paid per frame around 15€ (20USD).


I recently purchased a couple more uncuts, and was just revisiting this thread/topic when something about your post caught my eye: You are mounting your uncuts on black cardboard??!!??

I seriously doubt that "black cardboard" would be acid-free, and so I think that you are in serious danger of the black from that cardboard leaching/bleeding/transferring onto the back of the uncut over time!!

(I've posted elsewhere the awful story of a collection of rare antique decks I once saw, the cards in which had been badly stained brown, having been mounted on the brown-colored construction paper pages of old scrapbooks/albums.

I recently sought advice (about matting, framing and hanging uncut sheets) from a dear, long-time friend of mine, who is an artist, and who worked for five years as the framer for a museum. She advised me to use mats (the frame-like rectangle which fits between the edges of the uncut and the inner edges of the frame) if possible, rather than mounting the uncut directly on a board of some kind, because the rectangular mat not only looks nice, but it keeps the art from directly touching the glass/plexiglass front of the frame, \\ (which can be bad for certain kinds of art), and it also eliminates the risk of color bleed/transference from a backing/board to the art/uncut.

She also recommended that if I decided to go with mounting the uncut on something, rather than using a mat (because mounting boards are less expensive than having custom mats made), that I should only mount them on white "archive board" to prevent the color leaching/bleeding/transferring. She said that archive board does come in other colors, but she would not trust even them to not color transfer, if the art was expensive, or was somehow meaningful to the owner.
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Re: Framing/Hanging Uncut Sheets

Unread postby RSLancastr » Sat May 03, 2014 7:57 am  

Mike Ratledge wrote:USPCC lists the size as 'about 22" wide and 26" tall' which is pretty close, but not exact. If you want to go with something pretty much with thin borders, the size you're looking for is around 24" x 28" which is not a standard size for frames, but you can find that size if you look hard enough.


Thanks for all of that (and the rest), Mike.

I don't know whether I've already mentioned this or not, but I recently asked an old friend for some advice in framing and hanging uncuts. I have known her ever since we dated in high school, forty years ago (ulp!). She has a ton of experience in framing and hanging art: She is not only an artist, but teaches art as well, and - most importantly to this topic - worked for several years as a Framer in a museum, so she knows of what she speaks regarding framing.

She is of the opinion that a mat should be two inches in width, for reasons both aesthetic and practical (the practical being that a mat thinner than that is very difficult to work with, at the lengths we are talking about).

If I go with that advice, that would mean that the frame should be about 26" x 30", which would add to both the cost per frame and the amount of wall space taken up by the frame (which becomes a big concern when you're talking about hanging multiple uncuts on the same wall, or even within the same room, as I plan to do).

She also strongly recommends against using mats or backing boards of any color other than white, due to the possibility of colors leaching/bleeding/transferring onto the art, even with acid-free "archive-quality" mats/boards (although the chances of it are far less with those).

She also had some thoughts on making the frame double-sided, although I could not follow her thoughts on that, and she is sending me sketches she is drawing to clarify.

All in all, she is a fabulous resource for this kind of information. If she lived nearby instead of 600+ miles away, I would offer to pay her to come over and do the matting, framing and hanging for me!
-Marcel Marceau
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