KickScammed.com

[sprouts1115]

Hmm, I could pledge $1 for every card Kickstarter. We have what 40 successful ones a year and a bazillion that don't make it. When It hits the mark of 3 months over due. I could post on the comment section that this Kickstarter is in the "Hall of Shame" at the UC. That would in turn bring people here and hopefully some future deck makers that won't make the same mistakes...

[BMPokerworld]

Unfortunately it won't matter. They either don't read the comments or figure its only $10 or $15, no big deal. Case in point, how many people still go over to Aether despite the fact that Alex flat out ripped people off.

Thanks!

[volantangel]

Unfortunately it won't matter. They either don't read the comments or figure its only $10 or $15, no big deal. Case in point, how many people still go over to Aether despite the fact that Alex flat out ripped people off.

Thanks!

Mike aether is no longer owned by alex, its is now owned by don boyer.

[BMPokerworld]

Unfortunately it won't matter. They either don't read the comments or figure its only $10 or $15, no big deal. Case in point, how many people still go over to Aether despite the fact that Alex flat out ripped people off.

Thanks!

Mike aether is no longer owned by alex, its is now owned by don boyer.

Does it really matter? People were still going there when he owned it and Don doesn't breathe without Alex's permission.

Thanks!

EDIT: Alex shouldn't even be allowed on the forum to voice his opinion after ripping so many people off, he should be banned. For the record, Don sent Jay an email and said I talked it over with Alex and we would like to bury the hatchet. So Don may own it on paper, but Alex still controls it.

[MagikFingerz]

Interpreting "talked it over" with "reported to" or "got orders from" is a bit presumptious, isn't it?

As long as Alex never makes another deck, I don't see any problem with burying the hatchet.

[BMPokerworld]

Interpreting "talked it over" with "reported to" or "got orders from" is a bit presumptious, isn't it?

As long as Alex never makes another deck, I don't see any problem with burying the hatchet.

Unfortunately your position on this is exactly the problem with the hobby right now. We let known thieves participate.

Thanks!

EDIT: Do you think all those people he ripped off feel the same way?

[Mike Ratledge]

I like that too. So we have "Active Kickstaters", "Funded and waiting for shipment Kickstarters", "Unsuccessful Kickstarters", "Hall of Fame Kickstarters", and "Hall of Shame Kickstarters" That's 5 threads which would be a lot of work. I'm willing to help ratledge. Unsuccessful Kickstarters is an option. I actually get some information on not what to do with theses guys.... What do think the time should be for the Hall of Shame should it be 6 months from funding date? I think 6 months is plenty of time to roll out the decks...

Well, we can do that pretty easily in two steps: if you'll create one for "Unsuccessful Kickstarters", I'll sticky it, and then I'll figure out how to whittle the "Successfully Funded" message into two parts, I guess. At least take those we move to the "Hall of Shame" from the "Successful" column out.

Looks like we cooked up a good 'ol sh*t storm with the comments last night! I'll have to report on the good side of things that this week I've gotten my Federal 52 Part 2 stuff, Empire from Kenzii (Lee McK), Lotrek's Venexiana decks, Chris' Day of the Dead "Cavaleras" decks and a replacement for a hurt deck from UUSI

[Brillig]

An interesting wrinkle - the Kickstarter UI now allows a backer to tick off a check-box when they get their rewards.

At the moment, this just looks like a book-keeping entry for backers. But this could be the start of a better feedback loop inside Kickstarter.

[Mike Ratledge]

An interesting wrinkle - the Kickstarter UI now allows a backer to tick off a check-box when they get their rewards.

At the moment, this just looks like a book-keeping entry for backers. But this could be the start of a better feedback loop inside Kickstarter.

Oddly enough, I just found that today myself, and wondered if I had maybe never dug that deep...

[montecarlojoe]

It's definitely recent - very handy tool!

I wonder if there's an api that can pull a feed of those stats (much like sites like kicktraq does) ?

It would be invaluable to the the kickback site...

[MagikFingerz]

That feature, along with any stats extrapolated from it, would be better if it was a "Received - Not received" option. As it is now, everyone who doesn't find out about this feature (or is too lazy to bother with it) will be counted as "Not received".

[UtterFool]

Please don't judge

So I just went through and checked off all the projects That I have received rewards for.
here are a few things I learned.
1. I have spent way too much money on Kickstarter over the past 2 years
2. I have backed 190 projects
3. 114 of them have been fulfilled.
4. 40 of them have not reached their "Due" date yet.
5. of the 36 that are late about 12 of them have been communicating and showing their progress giving me faith that they will probably fulfill the pledge.
6. Of the remaining 24 that are late and do not communicate 19 of them are playing card projects.
7. my pledges run about 50% board games 35% playing cards and 20% other.
8. Unfulfilled playing card projects account for 10% of all my pledged projects.
9. I have backed 67 playing card projects with 28% late and unfulfilled.
10. I have backed I have backed 95 boardgame projects with <1% late and unfulfilled
11. I have backed 28 other projects with 10% late and unfulfilled
12. The largest amount of money "lost" towards late and unfulfilled projects is in playing cards.

It appears to me that in my pledging interests the most risky area to back is playing card projects.
I am not 100% certain why this is, could be due to the minimal amount of effort, comparatively, needed to put into a playing card project to make it look legit. Or a higher degree of unscrupulous people involved in the playing card market (playing cards are used for gambling after all which is a sin).
But I feel the evidence is pretty clear.

[Mike Ratledge]

OK, I know that I have seen this before (somewhere), but I can't find the discussion. As a starter, name a few candidates for the "Hall of Shame".

Right now I have Core, Vortex & Founders in stone and Army Men in the questionable category, and I know there were at least a couple more we talked about, but as I recall it was in one of the KS deck threads.

[sprouts1115]

Asylum - Cards Due Dec 2012 - http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/213 ... ying-cards
Gangsters - Cards Due Jul 2013 - http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jay ... ying-cards
1616 Silver - Cards Due Sept 2013 - http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/344 ... le-playing
A Victorian Adventure - Card Due Sept 2013 http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/344 ... rds-uspcc/


Was going to post This one. He has not posted a Update since Sept 9th. 4 months is a bit long for an update to his backers. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gol ... from-vanda But when I read one of the comments there is some hope if he has the shipping funds:


Heather Brent on Dec 4
Hey Guys! I sent an email to USPC because I was getting worried about David and this project. Tiffany replied back and I am quoting it below. I hope this helps others as much as it helped calm my nerves about this project.
Hi Heather,
The decks have been produced and will be shipping out to David shortly. I believe he’s been traveling. They look great, excited for you to get them! Thanks so much and have a great day!!

Tiffany
Business Development Manager
The United States Playing Card Company


This one may be another from Adam. It flew under the radar. Notice you see a lot of people in the comment section saying they didn't get their cards and don't know a lot of people saying they did. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/one ... ?ref=users
Notice the damage control.

[UtterFool]

don't forget ultra-violet ( http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/144 ... m-beta17-0 )
and possibly Ruse ( http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gamesalute/ruse-1 ) although really it is only fitting if these don't deliver.

[Mike Ratledge]

Thanks, guys! I found an interesting link to an article on Reddit.com about "Beware fraudulent kickstarter projects" and it looks like it started out being about "Founders" and degenerated into a free-for-all talking about everything KS. Good read! http://www.reddit.com/r/kickstarter/com ... _projects/

[BMPokerworld]

Please don't judge

So I just went through and checked off all the projects That I have received rewards for.
here are a few things I learned.
1. I have spent way too much money on Kickstarter over the past 2 years
2. I have backed 190 projects
3. 114 of them have been fulfilled.
4. 40 of them have not reached their "Due" date yet.
5. of the 36 that are late about 12 of them have been communicating and showing their progress giving me faith that they will probably fulfill the pledge.
6. Of the remaining 24 that are late and do not communicate 19 of them are playing card projects.
7. my pledges run about 50% board games 35% playing cards and 20% other.
8. Unfulfilled playing card projects account for 10% of all my pledged projects.
9. I have backed 67 playing card projects with 28% late and unfulfilled.
10. I have backed I have backed 95 boardgame projects with <1% late and unfulfilled
11. I have backed 28 other projects with 10% late and unfulfilled
12. The largest amount of money "lost" towards late and unfulfilled projects is in playing cards.

It appears to me that in my pledging interests the most risky area to back is playing card projects.
I am not 100% certain why this is, could be due to the minimal amount of effort, comparatively, needed to put into a playing card project to make it look legit. Or a higher degree of unscrupulous people involved in the playing card market (playing cards are used for gambling after all which is a sin).
But I feel the evidence is pretty clear.

It is more than likely caused by a minimal amount of effort. The games require a lot more time and energy.

Thanks!

[Mike Ratledge]

It appears to me that in my pledging interests the most risky area to back is playing card projects.
I am not 100% certain why this is, could be due to the minimal amount of effort, comparatively, needed to put into a playing card project to make it look legit. Or a higher degree of unscrupulous people involved in the playing card market (playing cards are used for gambling after all which is a sin).
But I feel the evidence is pretty clear.

It is more than likely caused by a minimal amount of effort. The games require a lot more time and energy.

Interestingly enough, we were discussing the amount of projects that fulfill late for playing cards on KS, and the fact is that for the projects that were run in 2011 & 2012, the top funded projects ended up with 57% of them delivering after the date initially given in the project. The other side of the coin is that the overall average for KS is 87% of them being late.

Ivan (the author of the Kardify Analytics) is doing some interesting stuff, and in a week or two I'll be asking for input to help me put together a guest writer appearance on his site talking about the "Kickstarter Hall of Shame" for playing cards. You guys already gave me enough ammunition to get him started in that direction with the links in the past few messages and the ones that I already had on my *hit list.

[Lukeout]

I love the idea of tracking delivery "on time" projects and "late" ones. I've run and delivered 5 Kickstarter projects to date (not playing cards - 4 games, and a kids book). All were delivered on-time or early. It's a huge point of pride for my small group as some projects NEVER deliver and a massive % are late. We once air-shipped product from China, totally destroying all our margin, to deliver on time. It was brutal, but I refused to be late.

There are reasonable reasons for being late (I always tell folks, I'm one bus hitting me away from being late), but it would be nice to have a public record. I'd even allow project creators to post their reason for being late.

The best part about a site like the one you are proposing is that it would encourage new project creators to learn enough before launching.

[Mike Ratledge]

I love the idea of tracking delivery "on time" projects and "late" ones. I've run and delivered 5 Kickstarter projects to date (not playing cards - 4 games, and a kids book). All were delivered on-time or early. It's a huge point of pride for my small group as some projects NEVER deliver and a massive % are late. We once air-shipped product from China, totally destroying all our margin, to deliver on time. It was brutal, but I refused to be late.

There are reasonable reasons for being late (I always tell folks, I'm one bus hitting me away from being late), but it would be nice to have a public record. I'd even allow project creators to post their reason for being late.

The best part about a site like the one you are proposing is that it would encourage new project creators to learn enough before launching.

Well, without giving anything away - I'm thinking that Mike's idea that we could host the "Kick Backer" project right here on UC. It sure sounds like a plan to me. Now, I still am going to need someone to do some of the fancy footwork (i.e. coding) in the background to turn the raw data into graphics and tables, etc.

[montecarlojoe]

I've experience with HTML, CSS, PHP (rusty there though), JavaScript, VB Script for MS office

Not sure that Mike would want me tinkering under the hood , but I'm happy to crunch numbers and produce graphs and whatnot.

[Mike Ratledge]

I've experience with HTML, CSS, PHP (rusty there though), JavaScript, VB Script for MS office

Not sure that Mike would want me tinkering under the hood , but I'm happy to crunch numbers and produce graphs and whatnot.

I'm pretty certain that we are going to take that direction, Joe. If you can code, we'll be pressing you into service. I can code HTML well enough to build a basic page and even get a little fancy, but the part about handling a database / backend files is beyond my ken.

[sprouts1115]

Unfortunately it won't matter. They either don't read the comments or figure its only $10 or $15, no big deal. Case in point, how many people still go over to Aether despite the fact that Alex flat out ripped people off.

Thanks!

Mike aether is no longer owned by alex, its is now owned by don boyer.

The Discourse is no longer owned by Don as of today. Edited by Admin

[BMPokerworld]

Unfortunately it won't matter. They either don't read the comments or figure its only $10 or $15, no big deal. Case in point, how many people still go over to Aether despite the fact that Alex flat out ripped people off.

Thanks!

Mike aether is no longer owned by alex, its is now owned by don boyer.

The Discourse is no longer owned by Don as of today. Edited by Admin

Yes it is now owned by Tom Dawson, his wife & Lee Asher

Thanks!

[Mike Ratledge]

It looks like the way we're going we're going to fold the project under UC. I think that's the logical way to go. We already know who the "bad guys" or bad projects are, and we already have enough users that have experience with crapped up projects, so we could easily create another forum that was dedicated to "all things Kickstarter" including the two threads I maintain now, which is soon going to morph into 3, one being the "Kickstarter Hall of Shame" and takes projects out of the "Successfully Funded" thread and tosses them into the lion's den. What I'm thinking about is creating a new "Kickstarter" sub-forum and then underneath the "Hall of Shame" thread we could have each of those lucky projects that end up there with a separate thread so that users can comment on each specific late or flat our fraudulent project. That sounds like a start to me, not exactly where I wanted to go just yet, but with Walrus' help maybe we can figure out how to do a little backend SQL database that tracks the trends and rates project and creators depending on their feedback after we develop a uniform survey that people could fill out on the effectiveness of the project, the timeliness of fulfillment, etc.?

[Mike Ratledge]

The Discourse is no longer owned by Don as of today.


Yes it is now owned by Tom Dawson, his wife & Lee Asher.

You know I'm not 100% certain, but I think Lee was just a facilitator for the transaction but Tom basically bought the forums from Alex. I know that Don is still the main guy there, beyond that I'd be speculating. It could well be Tom & wife ("Judy"), but I'm almost certain that even if she is an owner in name, it's in name only and she won't be taking an active roll there. Lee is listed as an "Admin" person, he may well be doing the actual 'work' for Tom, I guess we'll see.

Doesn't really affect us here, we need to keep UC strong and distinctive in what we do and are.

[montecarlojoe]

My server side coding is aqt least a decade out of date, but I'll give what help I can.

You know I'm not 100% certain, but I think Lee was just a facilitator

That's certainly how it comes accross on the posts from Tom on the Discourse.

UC and discourse certainly each have thier own personality and flavour - and I enjoy them both.

[DukeBoy]

here is one to add to the kickback list

see if you can read update 32

[MagikFingerz]

Holy $#!+ that is one bigass rant in the last update! That guy's got some issues...

[DukeBoy]

Holy $#!+ that is one bigass rant in the last update! That guy's got some issues...

I think that is putting it mildly.