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Re: kickstarter.com "Kick back" campaign

Unread post by montecarlojoe »

I like the idea of the site, but maybe have some carrot as well as stick - article to highlight exemplars of well run campaigns for high quality goods perhaps? Or guides for HOW to run a campaign...
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Re: kickstarter.com "Kick back" campaign

Unread post by MagikFingerz »

montecarlojoe wrote:I like the idea of the site, but maybe have some carrot as well as stick - article to highlight exemplars of well run campaigns for high quality goods perhaps? Or guides for HOW to run a campaign...
Both good ideas. It can also have a feedback section for projects that haven't launched yet, where creators can post previews of their project page and get constructive criticism on layout, reward levels etc.
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Re: kickstarter.com "Kick back" campaign

Unread post by montecarlojoe »

MagikFingerz wrote:
montecarlojoe wrote:I like the idea of the site, but maybe have some carrot as well as stick - article to highlight exemplars of well run campaigns for high quality goods perhaps? Or guides for HOW to run a campaign...
Both good ideas. It can also have a feedback section for projects that haven't launched yet, where creators can post previews of their project page and get constructive criticism on layout, reward levels etc.
Good point - perhaps the section for presentation and feedback could be separate from an area where the site independently gives its (as far as possible) objective preview of the project.

you could take that a step further:

Project previews: Which give a rating based on the criteria that have been outlined here, and creator "Rep".
Project reviews: Which give a rating based on the actual outcomes, times scales, communication etc.
Product Rating: Your basic review of the deck/other product etc
Creator Rep: Based on Project Review and Product ratings

This way the more projects you complete well and with a product at a high standard gives you more rep, which then feeds back to better preview ratings in the future - if the site gets enough exposure in the community and people care it's then to creator's advantage to COMPLETE before starting again...

I think the focus on the projects rather than fawning over the look of decks is a novel idea - NO-ONE does it outside of these forum type discussions...
BMPokerworld

Re: kickstarter.com "Kick back" campaign

Unread post by BMPokerworld »

montecarlojoe wrote:
MagikFingerz wrote:
montecarlojoe wrote:I like the idea of the site, but maybe have some carrot as well as stick - article to highlight exemplars of well run campaigns for high quality goods perhaps? Or guides for HOW to run a campaign...
Both good ideas. It can also have a feedback section for projects that haven't launched yet, where creators can post previews of their project page and get constructive criticism on layout, reward levels etc.
Good point - perhaps the section for presentation and feedback could be separate from an area where the site independently gives its (as far as possible) objective preview of the project.

you could take that a step further:

Project previews: Which give a rating based on the criteria that have been outlined here, and creator "Rep".
Project reviews: Which give a rating based on the actual outcomes, times scales, communication etc.
Product Rating: Your basic review of the deck/other product etc
Creator Rep: Based on Project Review and Product ratings

This way the more projects you complete well and with a product at a high standard gives you more rep, which then feeds back to better preview ratings in the future - if the site gets enough exposure in the community and people care it's then to creator's advantage to COMPLETE before starting again...

I think the focus on the projects rather than fawning over the look of decks is a novel idea - NO-ONE does it outside of these forum type discussions...
Those are all good suggestions, but in the end it won't matter. A perfect example is the Persian Nights deck. You have people on this forum who backed that deck the second time around despite all of the lies he told during the first campaign. Things like that just drive me nuts, but you can only take them to the water, you can't make them drink it.

Thanks!
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Re: kickstarter.com "Kick back" campaign

Unread post by MagikFingerz »

montecarlojoe wrote: Good point - perhaps the section for presentation and feedback could be separate from an area where the site independently gives its (as far as possible) objective preview of the project.

you could take that a step further:

Project previews: Which give a rating based on the criteria that have been outlined here, and creator "Rep".
Project reviews: Which give a rating based on the actual outcomes, times scales, communication etc.
Product Rating: Your basic review of the deck/other product etc
Creator Rep: Based on Project Review and Product ratings

This way the more projects you complete well and with a product at a high standard gives you more rep, which then feeds back to better preview ratings in the future - if the site gets enough exposure in the community and people care it's then to creator's advantage to COMPLETE before starting again...

I think the focus on the projects rather than fawning over the look of decks is a novel idea - NO-ONE does it outside of these forum type discussions...
I think product rating would be somewhat irrelevant and too subjective to be included. If the goal is objectivity, the only thing that matters is that the product matches what is promised by the creator. That should probably be covered in the "project reviews" section anyway.

Other than that, everything sounds like it would work well. Hopefully The Ratman can find a web programmer to get this going soon :)
BMPokerworld wrote:Those are all good suggestions, but in the end it won't matter. A perfect example is the Persian Nights deck. You have people on this forum who backed that deck the second time around despite all of the lies he told during the first campaign. Things like that just drive me nuts, but you can only take them to the water, you can't make them drink it.

Thanks!
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Re: kickstarter.com "Kick back" campaign

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

montecarlojoe wrote:I like the idea of the site, but maybe have some carrot as well as stick - article to highlight exemplars of well run campaigns for high quality goods perhaps? Or guides for HOW to run a campaign...
I agree toally with this as well, and that's the point: we won't just be disapproving of people that aren't honest or fail to deliver in a timely fashion, we'll be highlighting trustworthy new projects that we see as a good investment for "All Things Kickstarter". That being said, I have to realize that there are a whole lot of things other than playing cards, but "you can do anything with statistics". :lol:

I'd like to make it pretty much self-sustaining in that it will actually be able to pick and possibly predict the success of a new project down the road after it gets to the basic goal, which is tracking the "Good, Bad & Ugly" projects and creators. That would be interesting, and again - something that I have no clue how to program, but - I'm certain it's doable.
MagikFingerz wrote:
montecarlojoe wrote:I like the idea of the site, but maybe have some carrot as well as stick - article to highlight exemplars of well run campaigns for high quality goods perhaps? Or guides for HOW to run a campaign...
Both good ideas. It can also have a feedback section for projects that haven't launched yet, where creators can post previews of their project page and get constructive criticism on layout, reward levels etc.
Also sounds good. Keep them coming. By the time we have a good couple of pages here, I think we'll know exactly what directions to take in addition to the basic goal which is to scold and discourage people from backing projects by people that have previously been naughty, but at the same time we want to encourage people to back projects when the designed has a new project and he's been nice. (must be getting close to the holidays, I don't usually talk this way)
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Re: kickstarter.com "Kick back" campaign

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

MagikFingerz wrote:
montecarlojoe wrote: Good point - perhaps the section for presentation and feedback could be separate from an area where the site independently gives its (as far as possible) objective preview of the project.

you could take that a step further:

Project previews: Which give a rating based on the criteria that have been outlined here, and creator "Rep".
Project reviews: Which give a rating based on the actual outcomes, times scales, communication etc.
Product Rating: Your basic review of the deck/other product etc
Creator Rep: Based on Project Review and Product ratings

This way the more projects you complete well and with a product at a high standard gives you more rep, which then feeds back to better preview ratings in the future - if the site gets enough exposure in the community and people care it's then to creator's advantage to COMPLETE before starting again...

I think the focus on the projects rather than fawning over the look of decks is a novel idea - NO-ONE does it outside of these forum type discussions...
I think product rating would be somewhat irrelevant and too subjective to be included. If the goal is objectivity, the only thing that matters is that the product matches what is promised by the creator. That should probably be covered in the "project reviews" section anyway.

Other than that, everything sounds like it would work well. Hopefully The Ratman can find a web programmer to get this going soon :)
BMPokerworld wrote:Those are all good suggestions, but in the end it won't matter. A perfect example is the Persian Nights deck. You have people in this forum who backed that deck the second time around despite all of the lies he told during the first campaign. Things like that just drive me nuts, but you can only take them to the water, you can't make them drink it.

Thanks!
People will always do stupid things, it's human nature. That shouldn't stop anyone from trying to make a difference.
Good points, at first I guess it's best to focus on the difference between good project management and followthrough and those that do neither. If we start out giving people an open forum, we'll end up having a couple of people 'blow their horn' on the site, only to turn around and end up on the 'naughty' list later, which wouldn't help the site's credibility.

Second one goes back to "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink". No matter how much we publicize the fact that certain people just aren't worth backing, you'll still have people like Cy that somehow backed his own project by the tune of $1000 overnight when it was destined to fail, only to see it squeek by with obviously not enough funding - or he wouldn't have been back at the watering hole less than six weeks later. "You can show an idiot they're stupid, but even with a 2x4, you can't beat sense into him".

I'm hoping somebody with good coding skilz steps up to the plate, too. I'm not bad at it, I'm just not good at it, either - and I know the difference between an OK site and a great site and a freakin' fabulous site.

I want to at least hit the middle of that curve, at least - if not towards the "looking good" side.
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Re: kickstarter.com "Kick back" campaign

Unread post by th4mo »

Is this new imagined site supposed to cover just playing card KS projects, or ALL KS projects?

If it's all of KS, than you are talking about a huge undertaking that i believe is way beyond the capabilities of a few talented amateurs in their spare time...

If it's just cards projects, and you want to:

-discuss the merits of various newly -launched KS projects
-spread the word about disreputable creators
-highlight and praise successful creators

well, i can think of a few websites already in existence that already do this, although without a formal rating system. ;)
Keep it Sizzlin'!
BMPokerworld

Re: kickstarter.com "Kick back" campaign

Unread post by BMPokerworld »

th4mo wrote:Is this new imagined site supposed to cover just playing card KS projects, or ALL KS projects?

If it's all of KS, than you are talking about a huge undertaking that i believe is way beyond the capabilities of a few talented amateurs in their spare time...

If it's just cards projects, and you want to:

-discuss the merits of various newly -launched KS projects
-spread the word about disreputable creators
-highlight and praise successful creators

well, i can think of a few websites already in existence that already do this, although without a formal rating system. ;)
Actually we can do those same things because they people who would actually research that information are probably the members here.

Thanks!
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Re: kickstarter.com "Kick back" campaign

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

th4mo wrote:Is this new imagined site supposed to cover just playing card KS projects, or ALL KS projects?

If it's all of KS, than you are talking about a huge undertaking that i believe is way beyond the capabilities of a few talented amateurs in their spare time...

If it's just cards projects, and you want to:

-discuss the merits of various newly -launched KS projects
-spread the word about disreputable creators
-highlight and praise successful creators

well, i can think of a few websites already in existence that already do this, although without a formal rating system. ;)
Yep, I know. I've thought about it, and right now it would have to be limited to playing cards for it to be even manageable.
BMPokerworld wrote:
th4mo wrote:Is this new imagined site supposed to cover just playing card KS projects, or ALL KS projects?

If it's all of KS, than you are talking about a huge undertaking that i believe is way beyond the capabilities of a few talented amateurs in their spare time...

If it's just cards projects, and you want to:

-discuss the merits of various newly -launched KS projects
-spread the word about disreputable creators
-highlight and praise successful creators

well, i can think of a few websites already in existence that already do this, although without a formal rating system. ;)
Actually we can do those same things because they people who would actually research that information are probably the members here.

Thanks!
Don't think that's a bad idea, either. Just thinking about using "kickstabbers.com" to do that, seems only appropriate. :P
>Mike<
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Re: kickstarter.com "Kick back" campaign

Unread post by th4mo »

BMPokerworld wrote:
th4mo wrote:Is this new imagined site supposed to cover just playing card KS projects, or ALL KS projects?

If it's all of KS, than you are talking about a huge undertaking that i believe is way beyond the capabilities of a few talented amateurs in their spare time...

If it's just cards projects, and you want to:

-discuss the merits of various newly -launched KS projects
-spread the word about disreputable creators
-highlight and praise successful creators

well, i can think of a few websites already in existence that already do this, although without a formal rating system. ;)
Actually we can do those same things because they people who would actually research that information are probably the members here.

Thanks!
That was actually my point, Mike. :lol:
Thanks for picking up on it! :D
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Re: kickstarter.com "Kick back" campaign

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

As I expected, my initial complaint was met with a "No Answer, We'll get back to you":
KS_initial_response.png
KS_initial_response.png (26.4 KiB) Viewed 1802 times
Pretty much what I expected to happen until Monday "business hours". After all, if you'd made $44 million + off kickstarter pledges, you'd likely take weekends off, too.

So, who do we put on our initial "hit-list"? I know of two myself, but I am certain that there are more.
>Mike<
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Re: kickstarter.com "Kick back" campaign

Unread post by montecarlojoe »

MagikFingerz wrote:If the goal is objectivity, the only thing that matters is that the product matches what is promised by the creator. That should probably be covered in the "project reviews" section anyway.
Whilst I agree - I'd be more inclined to praise someone higher if they promise the world and deliver, over someone who promises a deck made from cereal packets and crayons and delivers.

There must be an objective way of doing it - even if that means ignoring aesthetics (VERY subjective) and looking at manufacturing quality and functional design (can be defined, to a reasonable degree, objectively).
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Re: kickstarter.com "Kick back" campaign

Unread post by MagikFingerz »

Hmm, that is a good point. Should be doable if the site will only look at decks of cards for the time being, at least that is easily defined for us. Maybe if/when the site is expanded to all kickstarters it'll have a community that can define other products as easily.
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Re: kickstarter.com "Kick back" campaign

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

OK, I think we've had a good discussion, and I'm still looking for someone that's zealous like I am to code it up. I'll keep everyone advised of my progress - or lack thereof.
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Members are encouraged to
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Re: kickstarter.com "Kick back" campaign

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

Just to bring this back current, I'm thinking about adding a new "sticky" thread for "Kickstarter lowlife", maybe just "Kickstarter disappointments" or something not too terribly "poke them in the eye", although that's exactly what it's intended to do.

I have a list of 4 or 5, maybe 6 - anybody want to add on?

Core, Vortex, Founders - surely all belong, as do several others.

Suggestions for the "hit parade"?
>Mike<
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They say "Ignorance is bliss". Obviously, some people are much happier than others...

Members are encouraged to
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Re: kickstarter.com "Kick back" campaign

Unread post by montecarlojoe »

"Hall of shame" as a counterpoint to the Hall of Fame?
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Re: kickstarter.com "Kick back" campaign

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

montecarlojoe wrote:"Hall of shame" as a counterpoint to the Hall of Fame?
Works for me. I'll just take the "Funded" ones out of that thread and create a new "Kickstarter Hall of Shame". Actually, I like that, Joe!
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They say "Ignorance is bliss". Obviously, some people are much happier than others...

Members are encouraged to
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Re: kickstarter.com "Kick back" campaign

Unread post by sprouts1115 »

I like that too. So we have "Active Kickstaters", "Funded and waiting for shipment Kickstarters", "Unsuccessful Kickstarters", "Hall of Fame Kickstarters", and "Hall of Shame Kickstarters" That's 5 threads which would be a lot of work. I'm willing to help ratledge. Unsuccessful Kickstarters is an option. I actually get some information on not what to do with theses guys.... What do think the time should be for the Hall of Shame should it be 6 months from funding date? I think 6 months is plenty of time to roll out the decks...
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Re: kickstarter.com "Kick back" campaign

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

sprouts1115 wrote:I like that too. So we have "Active Kickstaters", "Funded and waiting for shipment Kickstarters", "Unsuccessful Kickstarters", "Hall of Fame Kickstarters", and "Hall of Shame Kickstarters" That's 5 threads which would be a lot of work. I'm willing to help ratledge. Unsuccessful Kickstarters is an option. I actually get some information on not what to do with theses guys.... What do think the time should be for the Hall of Shame should it be 6 months from funding date? I think 6 months is plenty of time to roll out the decks...
Sounds about right, but maybe we should give them a little slide-room: make it 3 months plus what they stated or in other words 3 months overdue?
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They say "Ignorance is bliss". Obviously, some people are much happier than others...

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Re: kickstarter.com "Kick back" campaign

Unread post by sprouts1115 »

Hmm, I could pledge $1 for every card Kickstarter. We have what 40 successful ones a year and a bazillion that don't make it. When It hits the mark of 3 months over due. I could post on the comment section that this Kickstarter is in the "Hall of Shame" at the UC. That would in turn bring people here and hopefully some future deck makers that won't make the same mistakes...
RussellSprouts
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Re: kickstarter.com "Kick back" campaign

Unread post by BMPokerworld »

Unfortunately it won't matter. They either don't read the comments or figure its only $10 or $15, no big deal. Case in point, how many people still go over to Aether despite the fact that Alex flat out ripped people off.

Thanks!
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Re: kickstarter.com "Kick back" campaign

Unread post by volantangel »

BMPokerworld wrote:Unfortunately it won't matter. They either don't read the comments or figure its only $10 or $15, no big deal. Case in point, how many people still go over to Aether despite the fact that Alex flat out ripped people off.

Thanks!
Mike aether is no longer owned by alex, its is now owned by don boyer.
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Re: kickstarter.com "Kick back" campaign

Unread post by BMPokerworld »

volantangel wrote:
BMPokerworld wrote:Unfortunately it won't matter. They either don't read the comments or figure its only $10 or $15, no big deal. Case in point, how many people still go over to Aether despite the fact that Alex flat out ripped people off.

Thanks!
Mike aether is no longer owned by alex, its is now owned by don boyer.

Does it really matter? People were still going there when he owned it and Don doesn't breathe without Alex's permission.

Thanks!

EDIT: Alex shouldn't even be allowed on the forum to voice his opinion after ripping so many people off, he should be banned. For the record, Don sent Jay an email and said I talked it over with Alex and we would like to bury the hatchet. So Don may own it on paper, but Alex still controls it.
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Re: kickstarter.com "Kick back" campaign

Unread post by MagikFingerz »

Interpreting "talked it over" with "reported to" or "got orders from" is a bit presumptious, isn't it?

As long as Alex never makes another deck, I don't see any problem with burying the hatchet.
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Re: kickstarter.com "Kick back" campaign

Unread post by BMPokerworld »

MagikFingerz wrote:Interpreting "talked it over" with "reported to" or "got orders from" is a bit presumptious, isn't it?

As long as Alex never makes another deck, I don't see any problem with burying the hatchet.

Unfortunately your position on this is exactly the problem with the hobby right now. We let known thieves participate.

Thanks!

EDIT: Do you think all those people he ripped off feel the same way?
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Re: kickstarter.com "Kick back" campaign

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

sprouts1115 wrote:I like that too. So we have "Active Kickstaters", "Funded and waiting for shipment Kickstarters", "Unsuccessful Kickstarters", "Hall of Fame Kickstarters", and "Hall of Shame Kickstarters" That's 5 threads which would be a lot of work. I'm willing to help ratledge. Unsuccessful Kickstarters is an option. I actually get some information on not what to do with theses guys.... What do think the time should be for the Hall of Shame should it be 6 months from funding date? I think 6 months is plenty of time to roll out the decks...
Well, we can do that pretty easily in two steps: if you'll create one for "Unsuccessful Kickstarters", I'll sticky it, and then I'll figure out how to whittle the "Successfully Funded" message into two parts, I guess. At least take those we move to the "Hall of Shame" from the "Successful" column out.

Looks like we cooked up a good 'ol sh*t storm with the comments last night! I'll have to report on the good side of things that this week I've gotten my Federal 52 Part 2 stuff, Empire from Kenzii (Lee McK), Lotrek's Venexiana decks, Chris' Day of the Dead "Cavaleras" decks and a replacement for a hurt deck from UUSI
>Mike<
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself"
They say "Ignorance is bliss". Obviously, some people are much happier than others...

Members are encouraged to
Show Us Your Cards!


Our UC2021 Decks entitled
"Odd Fellows"
by Lorenzo Gaggiotti / @Stockholm17
Coming soon: AKA
«Eighth Annual Decks»


UC members help maintain Portfolio52
THE Playing Card Database Online
Contact ecNate for details and access


UC2019 "Seventh Annual Decks"
by Montenzi Design
Funded 207% on KS: HERE


>>> UC Deck Sales <<<


Insert disclaimer here...
All information posted as fact is accurate at the time of posting to the best of my knowledge.
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Re: kickstarter.com "Kick back" campaign

Unread post by Brillig »

An interesting wrinkle - the Kickstarter UI now allows a backer to tick off a check-box when they get their rewards.

At the moment, this just looks like a book-keeping entry for backers. But this could be the start of a better feedback loop inside Kickstarter.
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Re: kickstarter.com "Kick back" campaign

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

Brillig wrote:An interesting wrinkle - the Kickstarter UI now allows a backer to tick off a check-box when they get their rewards.

At the moment, this just looks like a book-keeping entry for backers. But this could be the start of a better feedback loop inside Kickstarter.
Oddly enough, I just found that today myself, and wondered if I had maybe never dug that deep...
>Mike<
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself"
They say "Ignorance is bliss". Obviously, some people are much happier than others...

Members are encouraged to
Show Us Your Cards!


Our UC2021 Decks entitled
"Odd Fellows"
by Lorenzo Gaggiotti / @Stockholm17
Coming soon: AKA
«Eighth Annual Decks»


UC members help maintain Portfolio52
THE Playing Card Database Online
Contact ecNate for details and access


UC2019 "Seventh Annual Decks"
by Montenzi Design
Funded 207% on KS: HERE


>>> UC Deck Sales <<<


Insert disclaimer here...
All information posted as fact is accurate at the time of posting to the best of my knowledge.
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Re: kickstarter.com "Kick back" campaign

Unread post by montecarlojoe »

It's definitely recent - very handy tool!

I wonder if there's an api that can pull a feed of those stats (much like sites like kicktraq does) ?

It would be invaluable to the the kickback site...
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