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RichK wrote:guru,

I hate to be the negative one on this post but to me your new art has a clipart look to it and you just flood filled in areas with color, missing a tiny circle or edge here and there. I can't draw to save my life so if these are hand done and not finished artwork I wholeheartedly apologize.

Hi Rich,

No need to apologize as this feedback will definitely help in sprucing up the deck. May be, the color palette needs to be given another look.


Regards,
Sunish

MagikFingerz wrote:

guru wrote:and [we] have included the indices on both ends for all except the court cards.

That's like saying "We're going to vaccinate children, but only 80% of them. It'll probably be fine."

Which doesn't make any sense. Consistency is key when it comes to card design.

That is some information right there...

guru - I see you have one sided courts. That is fine, but your background image which is like chalk scratches on a backboard should be at least the same as the reverse of the card... You are trying to hide the one-wayness toward the center of the card. When it's out like that it's in the fan which is not good...

sprouts1115 wrote:

MagikFingerz wrote:

guru wrote:and [we] have included the indices on both ends for all except the court cards.

That's like saying "We're going to vaccinate children, but only 80% of them. It'll probably be fine."

Which doesn't make any sense. Consistency is key when it comes to card design.

That is some information right there...

guru - I see you have one sided courts. That is fine, but your background image which is like chalk scratches on a backboard should be at least the same as the reverse of the card... You are trying to hide the one-wayness toward the center of the card. When it's out like that it's in the fan which is not good...

The earlier quote was on a different aspect that has been taken care of in the latest design but thanks for giving your view on the fan. Will take a look once the other priorities are taken care of.


Regards,
Sunish

Here are the results of another iteration on the cards.


Regards,
Sunish

The spacing is wrong with the Jack of Diamonds. The diamond underneath the "J" is touching. I'd play with the spacing for all the court cards.

I find the colors you've used seem on the dull side, but that's just me. Others might like it more. I think these one way court cards fit in the theme of your deck. That's my feedback.

You are very persistent. Keep on keeping on.

TGunitedcardists wrote:The spacing is wrong with the Jack of Diamonds. The diamond underneath the "J" is touching. I'd play with the spacing for all the court cards.

I find the colors you've used seem on the dull side, but that's just me. Others might like it more. I think these one way court cards fit in the theme of your deck. That's my feedback.

You are very persistent. Keep on keeping on.

Yes, the spacing and positioning needs to be worked out on all cards and is going to be taken care once something closer to final artwork is reached. Thinking to experiment with 4 sided courts too.

Here is a brief on the reasoning behind the colors being used here.

I am sorry to say, but just because the colors you have chosen are tied in well with your theme, it doesn't mean that they go together well...in this case, imho, they do not...I do not like the new variation and think that the previous one was much better.

Yea, the very first original concept with some changes for playability would have been perfect, these new versions I feel are getting further and further away from the mark for me. :/

JuFiN wrote:Yea, the very first original concept with some changes for playability would have been perfect, these new versions I feel are getting further and further away from the mark for me. :/

Thanks for saying that but I believe the new variation is doing more justice to the theme than the original. In fact, I've the prototype deck of the original design available printed via MPC, and getting it in hand made me realize that a no.of things were missing. I'm also observing that somehow the colors are appearing a bit different on the forum. Anyways, I'm thankful for the review comments, and considering it a work in progress, you would be seeing regular updates here. I'm also thinking to get a few cards printed on professional stock from a local printer here, just to see how these appear in print.

guru,

I agree with shermjack that the colors don't need to match the theme. I'm sure you're working in CMKY bu the pictures you posted look way too bright and are painful t look at. I liked the vines and wavy lines you had on your previous try. I also agree with juFiN that you seem to be going backwards and removing and changing elements that worked to something inferior.

Sorry for the harsh opinions.

RichK wrote:guru,

I agree with shermjack that the colors don't need to match the theme. I'm sure you're working in CMKY bu the pictures you posted look way too bright and are painful t look at. I liked the vines and wavy lines you had on your previous try. I also agree with juFiN that you seem to be going backwards and removing and changing elements that worked to something inferior.

Sorry for the harsh opinions.

Hey Rich..don't feel bad. It is always good to get diverse viewpoints.

I've uploaded new images to the post now, and it is not that bright as they were looking earlier. Vines & wavy lines were not going well with the other cards and that's why they were removed. But, you'd be glad to know that design is being used in the back card now. The inspiration for the illustrations has been taken from numerous sources like street art, folk art, mehndi/henna tattoos etc. And, I believe the print will be on a bit darker side to what you see on your screen. Anyways, thanks to you and others for the comments till now.

All,

What do you think about light pip/dark pip concept? I was playing with the prototype deck (original design) and didn't hear from other players of any confusion caused due to this design. Still, I do understand that it is a major deviation from how you see pip configurations on poker decks.

Thoughts?

Regards,
Sunish

Well it is original and not really that bad. It works better now that the horrible brown color is gone as the base color.

I say that if you feel strongly that you want to make the pips this way, go for it, it's not bad design IMO. You just have to make sure that the "blank" pips have a right amount of strenght to the color, you don't want them to stand out too much or be completly invisible.

Also I believe that you should go with the style of courts that you showed the second time.

I think the blank/filled pip patterns are perfectly fine as a concept. I would make a couple of suggestions though: In the first design you posted (the all red one), the pips seem a lot bigger than in this latest iteration. It seems you took away the border and also shrunk the pips, leaving an awful lot of white space. perhaps it is an optical illusion, but that is how it seems. And so I would recommend making the pips bigger. Also in the first design, the blank pips are further distinguished by a flower. I think that worked quite well, but now it has gone. And the shade of red you have used in the latest pip cards is so dark as to be almost black. A lighter shade here would surely be preferable.

On your court cards, I much preferred the appearance of the second set you posted --- in colour and with something in the background (swirls) and with the dark brown outlines still intact. The images lose an awful lot when you take away the dark brown outlines from the figures as you have done in the third series of court cards. Having said that, I am not sure that the "tattoo" patterns on the skins of your figures really work as they are. The combination of the cruder thicker-lined figures with the superdetailed superfine lines of the patterns reveals too great a difference between the two styles for me.

shimmering wrote:I think the blank/filled pip patterns are perfectly fine as a concept. I would make a couple of suggestions though: In the first design you posted (the all red one), the pips seem a lot bigger than in this latest iteration. It seems you took away the border and also shrunk the pips, leaving an awful lot of white space. perhaps it is an optical illusion, but that is how it seems. And so I would recommend making the pips bigger. Also in the first design, the blank pips are further distinguished by a flower. I think that worked quite well, but now it has gone. And the shade of red you have used in the latest pip cards is so dark as to be almost black. A lighter shade here would surely be preferable.

On your court cards, I much preferred the appearance of the second set you posted --- in colour and with something in the background (swirls) and with the dark brown outlines still intact. The images lose an awful lot when you take away the dark brown outlines from the figures as you have done in the third series of court cards. Having said that, I am not sure that the "tattoo" patterns on the skins of your figures really work as they are. The combination of the cruder thicker-lined figures with the superdetailed superfine lines of the patterns reveals too great a difference between the two styles for me.

Yeah...the pips have been made bigger,here is the latest iteration.
Block print and Mehndi art are the inspiration for the "tattoo" patterns, and they look really beautiful and intricate even on poker sized card.







That said, here is the card back. I'm working with the printer to see how close can I push the artwork to the edge. You'll also find that the swirls have been utilised here. Somehow, there was a feeling that swirls on the face cards are weakening the real art and taking the attention away. Also, they were not going along with the whole deck when you take into account the cards, namely the aces and number cards.

Regards,
Sunish

Räpylätassu wrote:Well it is original and not really that bad. It works better now that the horrible brown color is gone as the base color.

I say that if you feel strongly that you want to make the pips this way, go for it, it's not bad design IMO. You just have to make sure that the "blank" pips have a right amount of strenght to the color, you don't want them to stand out too much or be completly invisible.

Also I believe that you should go with the style of courts that you showed the second time.

I've got mixed feedback on the light/dark pip with 40% saying to remove the superfluous pips and 60% liking the design. I feel strongly for it, and will be going with this design. Considering that I've the original prototype deck with me and any player has got used to it pretty fast without any lament, makes me believe that it will be accepted once the deck is in front of them.

I don't mind the gray pip "holding areas" and the bigger pips look better.

I still like the second set of courts with the vines the best. Your thought of "Somehow, there was a feeling that swirls on the face cards are weakening the real art and taking the attention away. Also, they were not going along with the whole deck when you take into account the cards, namely the aces and number cards." confuses me since number cards or aces that I've seen have are always just the pips. No need for vines on them.

I have Hindu friends with many tattoos like you show so I don't mind them on the courts.

The new back design is fine, but I really like the one you posted before!

The number cards still are not good. Is there a special reason why you want to greyed out pips in a non-standard configuration? My suggestion, as they are cards, just copy the standard Bicycle layout. They work well. They are cards.

The court cards are better, but still are the deal breaker. Unfortunately, they don't push me to the "buy" side yet. Any reason why you're not drawing them with a black line? They still look like shapes rather than an image. That's my honest feedback.

TGunitedcardists wrote:The new back design is fine, but I really like the one you posted before!

The number cards still are not good. Is there a special reason why you want to greyed out pips in a non-standard configuration? My suggestion, as they are cards, just copy the standard Bicycle layout. They work well. They are cards.

The court cards are better, but still are the deal breaker. Unfortunately, they don't push me to the "buy" side yet. Any reason why you're not drawing them with a black line? They still look like shapes rather than an image. That's my honest feedback.

The old back design used to really look good on screen, but the print looks dull and the gold color didn't provide good contrast on the dark background.
After trying a few combinations of color change etc., it was evident that the blank space will kill it even if a light background is used. This bcame the basis of updating the card back.

I understand it is a non-standard configuration but once the deck in front, it does take not more than a few minutes to get used to this new layout for playability purpose, and it is still a different and unique design. I'm working with the same designer who worked with me on Ganjifa deck, and both of us, and a few others in our circle are still giving thumbs up on the third iteration rather than the second. In fact, the sentiment that was expressed by RichK after showing a few court cards (second iteration) was expressed by a few close friends as well. All said, I thank you for giving the feedback. I believe this deck has come too far only because there were people like you and others on UC etc. who were there with the critical eye. Thanks for that.

Here are the updates. A note that I'm still experimenting with adding wavy lines in the background for court cards. It is making the card look too cluttered and Jacks look worse when the background is added. Still, a few variations need to be tested, and I'm also thinking to get a sample printed by MPC that may give a better sense.

Tuckbox rendering below.

I can't open it. Locked in dropbox.

RichK wrote:I can't open it. Locked in dropbox.

My bad. Post updated.

Really good work. I especially like card back design. Bravo goes to you.

guru - The only conflict I see is on your box. On the top space, it sorta needs a border. A red border in your case. The design might transfer to the sides which would be very bad. Nobody folds boxes perfectly you know.

sprouts1115 wrote:guru - The only conflict I see is on your box. On the top space, it sorta needs a border. A red border in your case. The design might transfer to the sides which would be very bad. Nobody folds boxes perfectly you know.

Yes, I did feel the same but it came quite well on the prototype decks. These two were done at different times and do not look that bad. Still, I understand that there is going to be a difference when a large order is going to get printed, and I'd need to take care of it before submitting final artwork.

Thanks for picking it out.

All,

Here is the preview link of the campaign page. I appreciate your feedback.


TMCards will be the manufacturer for this deck, and I've already placed an order to get a sample deck. I've seen another deck by them with similar specs, and it looks great. I do understand that manufacturer can make or break the game, so in case the quality lags or there is some issue then I'd be evaluating my decision. Considering that the deck is heavily influenced by Indian Mythology, so I was advised by a few to see if this deck can be printed in India itself. I've got a few prototypes done by MPC on 310 gsm linen and they look great as well. But, I do have more expectations from the improved card stock on which TMCards will be printing the sample. I did talk to 2 project creators, who did their projects with TMC. There were some concerns shared by one and I've been advised by them that those issues are resolved after the upgrade to the machinery.

Please do note that funding goal can vary as I'm still doing calculations and awaiting a few details from both vendors. It also depends on how the sample looks like. I'm yet to hear from the fulfilment partner @ Hong Kong on a few queries, and it looks likely that uncut sheet's reward tier will go down. Similarly, content is being worked upon and will change.


https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/su ... n=c925f142

Still, please feel free to share your feedback, comments & suggestions. This deck has been in the works for quite a while now, and my heartfelt thanks to all who looked into this thread and took the time out to share their opinion and feedback.


Regards,
Sunish

A little birdie tells me that the samples are done by TMCards and they look and feel great. I'm waiting to get the deck here with me now.