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Re: Traditional Indian crafts inspired deck

Unread postby guru » Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:24 pm  

RichK wrote:guru,

I hate to be the negative one on this post but to me your new art has a clipart look to it and you just flood filled in areas with color, missing a tiny circle or edge here and there. I can't draw to save my life so if these are hand done and not finished artwork I wholeheartedly apologize.



Hi Rich,

No need to apologize as this feedback will definitely help in sprucing up the deck. May be, the color palette needs to be given another look.


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Re: Traditional Indian crafts inspired deck

Unread postby sprouts1115 » Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:04 pm  

MagikFingerz wrote:
guru wrote:and [we] have included the indices on both ends for all except the court cards.

That's like saying "We're going to vaccinate children, but only 80% of them. It'll probably be fine."

Which doesn't make any sense. Consistency is key when it comes to card design.


That is some information right there...

guru - I see you have one sided courts. That is fine, but your background image which is like chalk scratches on a backboard should be at least the same as the reverse of the card... You are trying to hide the one-wayness toward the center of the card. When it's out like that it's in the fan which is not good...
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Re: Traditional Indian crafts inspired deck

Unread postby guru » Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:40 pm  

sprouts1115 wrote:
MagikFingerz wrote:
guru wrote:and [we] have included the indices on both ends for all except the court cards.

That's like saying "We're going to vaccinate children, but only 80% of them. It'll probably be fine."

Which doesn't make any sense. Consistency is key when it comes to card design.


That is some information right there...

guru - I see you have one sided courts. That is fine, but your background image which is like chalk scratches on a backboard should be at least the same as the reverse of the card... You are trying to hide the one-wayness toward the center of the card. When it's out like that it's in the fan which is not good...


The earlier quote was on a different aspect that has been taken care of in the latest design but thanks for giving your view on the fan. Will take a look once the other priorities are taken care of.


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Re: Traditional Indian crafts inspired deck

Unread postby guru » Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:33 pm  

Here are the results of another iteration on the cards.


DK-02.png


DQ-02.png



J-01.png



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Last edited by guru on Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Traditional Indian crafts inspired deck

Unread postby TGunitedcardists » Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:15 am  

The spacing is wrong with the Jack of Diamonds. The diamond underneath the "J" is touching. I'd play with the spacing for all the court cards.

I find the colors you've used seem on the dull side, but that's just me. Others might like it more. I think these one way court cards fit in the theme of your deck. That's my feedback.

You are very persistent. Keep on keeping on.
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Re: Traditional Indian crafts inspired deck

Unread postby guru » Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:54 am  

TGunitedcardists wrote:The spacing is wrong with the Jack of Diamonds. The diamond underneath the "J" is touching. I'd play with the spacing for all the court cards.

I find the colors you've used seem on the dull side, but that's just me. Others might like it more. I think these one way court cards fit in the theme of your deck. That's my feedback.

You are very persistent. Keep on keeping on.


Yes, the spacing and positioning needs to be worked out on all cards and is going to be taken care once something closer to final artwork is reached. Thinking to experiment with 4 sided courts too.

Here is a brief on the reasoning behind the colors being used here.

COLOURTHEORY DAPC.jpg
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Re: Traditional Indian crafts inspired deck

Unread postby shermjack » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:26 am  

I am sorry to say, but just because the colors you have chosen are tied in well with your theme, it doesn't mean that they go together well...in this case, imho, they do not...I do not like the new variation :? and think that the previous one was much better.
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Re: Traditional Indian crafts inspired deck

Unread postby JuFiN » Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:57 pm  

Yea, the very first original concept with some changes for playability would have been perfect, these new versions I feel are getting further and further away from the mark for me. :/
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Re: Traditional Indian crafts inspired deck

Unread postby guru » Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:45 pm  

JuFiN wrote:Yea, the very first original concept with some changes for playability would have been perfect, these new versions I feel are getting further and further away from the mark for me. :/


Thanks for saying that but I believe the new variation is doing more justice to the theme than the original. In fact, I've the prototype deck of the original design available printed via MPC, and getting it in hand made me realize that a no.of things were missing. I'm also observing that somehow the colors are appearing a bit different on the forum. Anyways, I'm thankful for the review comments, and considering it a work in progress, you would be seeing regular updates here. I'm also thinking to get a few cards printed on professional stock from a local printer here, just to see how these appear in print.
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Re: Traditional Indian crafts inspired deck

Unread postby RichK » Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:09 pm  

guru,

I agree with shermjack that the colors don't need to match the theme. I'm sure you're working in CMKY bu the pictures you posted look way too bright and are painful t look at. I liked the vines and wavy lines you had on your previous try. I also agree with juFiN that you seem to be going backwards and removing and changing elements that worked to something inferior.

Sorry for the harsh opinions.
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Re: Traditional Indian crafts inspired deck

Unread postby guru » Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:18 pm  

RichK wrote:guru,

I agree with shermjack that the colors don't need to match the theme. I'm sure you're working in CMKY bu the pictures you posted look way too bright and are painful t look at. I liked the vines and wavy lines you had on your previous try. I also agree with juFiN that you seem to be going backwards and removing and changing elements that worked to something inferior.

Sorry for the harsh opinions.



Hey Rich..don't feel bad. It is always good to get diverse viewpoints.

I've uploaded new images to the post now, and it is not that bright as they were looking earlier. Vines & wavy lines were not going well with the other cards and that's why they were removed. But, you'd be glad to know that design is being used in the back card now. The inspiration for the illustrations has been taken from numerous sources like street art, folk art, mehndi/henna tattoos etc. And, I believe the print will be on a bit darker side to what you see on your screen. Anyways, thanks to you and others for the comments till now.
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Re: Traditional Indian crafts inspired deck

Unread postby guru » Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:13 am  

All,

What do you think about light pip/dark pip concept? I was playing with the prototype deck (original design) and didn't hear from other players of any confusion caused due to this design. Still, I do understand that it is a major deviation from how you see pip configurations on poker decks.

Thoughts?

d5 (1).jpg


c4 (1).jpg


s7 (1).jpg


h10 (1).jpg



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Re: Traditional Indian crafts inspired deck

Unread postby Räpylätassu » Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:38 am  

Well it is original and not really that bad. It works better now that the horrible brown color is gone as the base color.

I say that if you feel strongly that you want to make the pips this way, go for it, it's not bad design IMO. You just have to make sure that the "blank" pips have a right amount of strenght to the color, you don't want them to stand out too much or be completly invisible.

Also I believe that you should go with the style of courts that you showed the second time.
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Re: Traditional Indian crafts inspired deck

Unread postby shimmering » Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:51 am  

I think the blank/filled pip patterns are perfectly fine as a concept. I would make a couple of suggestions though: In the first design you posted (the all red one), the pips seem a lot bigger than in this latest iteration. It seems you took away the border and also shrunk the pips, leaving an awful lot of white space. perhaps it is an optical illusion, but that is how it seems. And so I would recommend making the pips bigger. Also in the first design, the blank pips are further distinguished by a flower. I think that worked quite well, but now it has gone. And the shade of red you have used in the latest pip cards is so dark as to be almost black. A lighter shade here would surely be preferable.

On your court cards, I much preferred the appearance of the second set you posted --- in colour and with something in the background (swirls) and with the dark brown outlines still intact. The images lose an awful lot when you take away the dark brown outlines from the figures as you have done in the third series of court cards. Having said that, I am not sure that the "tattoo" patterns on the skins of your figures really work as they are. The combination of the cruder thicker-lined figures with the superdetailed superfine lines of the patterns reveals too great a difference between the two styles for me.
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Re: Traditional Indian crafts inspired deck

Unread postby guru » Sun Jul 31, 2016 7:02 am  

shimmering wrote:I think the blank/filled pip patterns are perfectly fine as a concept. I would make a couple of suggestions though: In the first design you posted (the all red one), the pips seem a lot bigger than in this latest iteration. It seems you took away the border and also shrunk the pips, leaving an awful lot of white space. perhaps it is an optical illusion, but that is how it seems. And so I would recommend making the pips bigger. Also in the first design, the blank pips are further distinguished by a flower. I think that worked quite well, but now it has gone. And the shade of red you have used in the latest pip cards is so dark as to be almost black. A lighter shade here would surely be preferable.

On your court cards, I much preferred the appearance of the second set you posted --- in colour and with something in the background (swirls) and with the dark brown outlines still intact. The images lose an awful lot when you take away the dark brown outlines from the figures as you have done in the third series of court cards. Having said that, I am not sure that the "tattoo" patterns on the skins of your figures really work as they are. The combination of the cruder thicker-lined figures with the superdetailed superfine lines of the patterns reveals too great a difference between the two styles for me.



Yeah...the pips have been made bigger,here is the latest iteration.

s10.jpg


Block print and Mehndi art are the inspiration for the "tattoo" patterns, and they look really beautiful and intricate even on poker sized card.

Image

Image

Image

That said, here is the card back. I'm working with the printer to see how close can I push the artwork to the edge. You'll also find that the swirls have been utilised here. Somehow, there was a feeling that swirls on the face cards are weakening the real art and taking the attention away. Also, they were not going along with the whole deck when you take into account the cards, namely the aces and number cards.

back_dapc.jpg



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Re: Traditional Indian crafts inspired deck

Unread postby guru » Sun Jul 31, 2016 7:53 am  

Räpylätassu wrote:Well it is original and not really that bad. It works better now that the horrible brown color is gone as the base color.

I say that if you feel strongly that you want to make the pips this way, go for it, it's not bad design IMO. You just have to make sure that the "blank" pips have a right amount of strenght to the color, you don't want them to stand out too much or be completly invisible.

Also I believe that you should go with the style of courts that you showed the second time.


I've got mixed feedback on the light/dark pip with 40% saying to remove the superfluous pips and 60% liking the design. I feel strongly for it, and will be going with this design. Considering that I've the original prototype deck with me and any player has got used to it pretty fast without any lament, makes me believe that it will be accepted once the deck is in front of them.
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Re: Traditional Indian crafts inspired deck

Unread postby RichK » Sun Jul 31, 2016 1:33 pm  

I don't mind the gray pip "holding areas" and the bigger pips look better.

I still like the second set of courts with the vines the best. Your thought of "Somehow, there was a feeling that swirls on the face cards are weakening the real art and taking the attention away. Also, they were not going along with the whole deck when you take into account the cards, namely the aces and number cards." confuses me since number cards or aces that I've seen have are always just the pips. No need for vines on them.

I have Hindu friends with many tattoos like you show so I don't mind them on the courts.
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Re: Traditional Indian crafts inspired deck

Unread postby TGunitedcardists » Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:51 am  

The new back design is fine, but I really like the one you posted before!

The number cards still are not good. Is there a special reason why you want to greyed out pips in a non-standard configuration? My suggestion, as they are cards, just copy the standard Bicycle layout. They work well. They are cards.

The court cards are better, but still are the deal breaker. Unfortunately, they don't push me to the "buy" side yet. Any reason why you're not drawing them with a black line? They still look like shapes rather than an image. That's my honest feedback.
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Re: Traditional Indian crafts inspired deck

Unread postby guru » Mon Aug 01, 2016 5:39 am  

TGunitedcardists wrote:The new back design is fine, but I really like the one you posted before!

The number cards still are not good. Is there a special reason why you want to greyed out pips in a non-standard configuration? My suggestion, as they are cards, just copy the standard Bicycle layout. They work well. They are cards.

The court cards are better, but still are the deal breaker. Unfortunately, they don't push me to the "buy" side yet. Any reason why you're not drawing them with a black line? They still look like shapes rather than an image. That's my honest feedback.


The old back design used to really look good on screen, but the print looks dull and the gold color didn't provide good contrast on the dark background.

back_old.jpg
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dapc_old.jpg
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After trying a few combinations of color change etc., it was evident that the blank space will kill it even if a light background is used. This bcame the basis of updating the card back.

I understand it is a non-standard configuration but once the deck in front, it does take not more than a few minutes to get used to this new layout for playability purpose, and it is still a different and unique design. I'm working with the same designer who worked with me on Ganjifa deck, and both of us, and a few others in our circle are still giving thumbs up on the third iteration rather than the second. In fact, the sentiment that was expressed by RichK after showing a few court cards (second iteration) was expressed by a few close friends as well. All said, I thank you for giving the feedback. I believe this deck has come too far only because there were people like you and others on UC etc. who were there with the critical eye. Thanks for that.
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Re: Traditional Indian crafts inspired deck

Unread postby guru » Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:55 am  

Here are the updates. A note that I'm still experimenting with adding wavy lines in the background for court cards. It is making the card look too cluttered and Jacks look worse when the background is added. Still, a few variations need to be tested, and I'm also thinking to get a sample printed by MPC that may give a better sense.

back_dapc_new.jpg


joker1.jpg


joker2.jpg


ha.jpg
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