PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

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PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by BlueToy »

I'm designing a series called PlanarenKarten, the art style of which is inspired by the Wiener Werkstaette, in particular the planar works of Ditha and Kolo Moser (Ditha created a beautiful whist pack in this style), mid 20th century cartoons, video games, and in some cases, Cosmati tile work. The series will consist of a playing card deck, a tarot deck, and a Lenormand deck.

I've recently finished the designs for the playing card deck and would appreciate some feedback. I've been told that the original design was too "busy" so I thought maybe I should release the deck in two forms - an art version with the embellishments, and a game version with the embellishments removed.

I'm looking into launching this via Kickstarter, but I'm still reading up on how to manage a crowdfunding campaign (there's so much to think about and consider!). I am considering using MPC/Printerstudio or Gamecrafter for printing the deck - the art is rather... different, so I'm trying to be realistic and expect only modest backing for the deck. I do hope to gain enough exposure and experience to be able to launch the other decks which I have designed.

Would appreciate your thoughts and suggestions.

-Ly
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Re: PlanarenKarten

Unread post by BlueToy »

PS I haven't much thought about what info to put in the Ace of Spades so I left it blank/solid at the moment.
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by dazzleguts »

I love that Ditha Moser whist deck.
They were bold geometric designs, but yours have a more delicate feel of embroidery/digital bit mapping. I prefer the bolder original style, but can understand you want your own design to be unique.

If you changed some of the checker board patterning to solid black or red the design would feel more solid/grounded, and less busy or lace-like.

I really like the face profiles so far. Will any of them be facing forward, for variety?

The red of the pip cards, and back, of the game edition is a little overwhelming. Perhaps introducing more black would help, as outlines of the red, and/or as black background shapes behind the red?
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by blejanre »

I think the Game version looks tenfold better than the Art edition. The art courts are crowded and busy, but it kind of works - the pips are just an eyesore in my opinion. I really like the game version though. The pips are a nice clean, pixelated version of the standard, no unnecessary flairs or corner designs. The courts are cool too, but maybe they could use some composition tweaks, the king especially feels a bit off balance to me. I think the back design has more potential. What about swapping the lattice thing you've got for straight up pixel art. I'm thinking somewhere between a persian rug and a classic, ornate card back. Diggin the concept so far though. :P
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by BlueToy »

dazzleguts wrote:If you changed some of the checker board patterning to solid black or red the design would feel more solid/grounded, and less busy or lace-like.
In my case, I thought they looked a bit like folksy quilt patterns after I finished the designs. haha It might be the case of the theme slightly shifting mid-way in the project (since the lace-like feel kinda crept in when I began making the queens). I've uploaded a comparison between the original art and one with more solid blocks of color. Personally, I still prefer the one with patterns, though I'll be revamping the more lace-looking cards - thanks for pointing that out.
dazzleguts wrote:I really like the face profiles so far. Will any of them be facing forward, for variety?

The red of the pip cards, and back, of the game edition is a little overwhelming. Perhaps introducing more black would help, as outlines of the red, and/or as black background shapes behind the red?
In the designs I've finished so far, no, all of them are in profile pose. I'll try to experiment with a front view done in this style. I'm kinda obsessive-compulsive so I set up some rules in my head regarding the figures - same faces per court card though two have sad faces and two have happy ones, plus the kings' facial hairstyles are different; same hand poses within a suit - e.g. diamond court cards have a "palm up" hand pose.
dazzleguts wrote:The red of the pip cards, and back, of the game edition is a little overwhelming. Perhaps introducing more black would help, as outlines of the red, and/or as black background shapes behind the red?
I've uploaded two samples of cards with another color "shadowing" the pips - though, being OC and all, I did a version for the black pips too. I still kinda like the one-color pips better - I mean, regular playing have single color pip cards, right?

This also got me thinking if the designs would look better when rendered with a vintaged look - as a reference to the vintage inspirations they're trying to emulate. Also attached is a "vintaged" Jack.

Thanks for the inputs! You've made me step back and consider where I want this project to go in terms of design.
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KING WITH SOLID COLOR AREAS
KING WITH SOLID COLOR AREAS
SOLID FIGURE.jpg (156.13 KiB) Viewed 2509 times
TWO COLOR PIPS
TWO COLOR PIPS
TWO COLOR PIPS.jpg (62.07 KiB) Viewed 2509 times
VINTAGED JACK
VINTAGED JACK
VINTAGE JACK.jpg (85.58 KiB) Viewed 2509 times
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by BlueToy »

blejanre wrote:I think the Game version looks tenfold better than the Art edition. The art courts are crowded and busy, but it kind of works - the pips are just an eyesore in my opinion. I really like the game version though. The pips are a nice clean, pixelated version of the standard, no unnecessary flairs or corner designs. The courts are cool too, but maybe they could use some composition tweaks, the king especially feels a bit off balance to me. I think the back design has more potential. What about swapping the lattice thing you've got for straight up pixel art. I'm thinking somewhere between a persian rug and a classic, ornate card back. Diggin the concept so far though. :P
Thanks for the feedback! I'm glad you got the partial gaming look I was hoping for. Though personally, I don't want it to have too much of that pixel look - I'm aiming for something between vintage planar art and vintage games (with my own personal style thrown in).

The backs... are not final. They're kinda like placeholder images I did just so I get to finish all the cards before running over them again and making changes. While I do like that it's different from other playing card backs, I'm also worried that it might be too... WTFish to collectors. haha
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by BlueToy »

Attached below are samples of some of the design's inspirations: Ditha Moser's original Whist playing card pack, some Wiener Werkstatte works which showcase geometric patterns, and some samples of Kolo Moser's works.

As you can see from the first image, Ditha Moser's suits were very stark and bold, soi tried a softer but nonetheless angular approach with my suits.
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DITHA MOSER WHIST PACK
DITHA MOSER WHIST PACK
ditha-moser-whist-wk-14504.jpg (310.95 KiB) Viewed 2508 times
WIENER WERKSTATTE SAMPLES
WIENER WERKSTATTE SAMPLES
WIENER WERKSTATTE INSPIRATIONS.jpg (238.02 KiB) Viewed 2508 times
KOLO MOSER SAMPLES
KOLO MOSER SAMPLES
KOLOMAN MOSER SAMPLES.jpg (250.69 KiB) Viewed 2508 times
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by dazzleguts »

I have to agree that the figures in the Game edition look good with the patterning. It's more the Art edition that needs the solidity, so that the figures stand out against the detailed background.

I'm not sure how I feel about the the drop shadows on the pips yet, but they do look even more like 8-bit video game.

I love the vintage jack! At first I thought you had found some variation of the Moser cards :shock: The red sits back nicely - no vibration. How would the Art card layouts look that way? Especially with a little more solid colour, but not as much as you did with the Game K of H?

You could have the Art deck "vintaged" while the Game deck remains stark white and video game like. That would draw in a wide variety of people/pledgers. Though personally I love what you've done with the vintage look enough to want to see it in both decks.
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by blejanre »

dazzleguts wrote:
I'm not sure how I feel about the the drop shadows on the pips yet, but they do look even more like 8-bit video game.

I love the vintage jack!
I agree on both of these points. The desaturated colours in the vintage jack really help your cause, looks much less like pixelated deck. I think the faded colours would be enough without the vintage texture overlay. Adding that overlay is akin to people printing t-shirts that look like they've been worn for 10 years - your cards will get a worn look from being played with, 100% authentic! I think the deck would definitely benefit from the desaturated colours.

Great rework of the king too, both of them look better, especially the solid black one.

I loved the old pip cards, they were plain and perfect. No need for the shadow.

EDIT: I changed my mind about the texture on the jack, it's subtle enough to not be distracting. Maybe just have it on the images though, and not the background. I would buy this deck without hesitation if it all looked like the jack
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by BlueToy »

Thanks for the inputs guys! Below are "vintaged" versions - of the back design (which I'm trying to figure out how to change), two pip cards - plain and embellished, and three versions of the queen of spades - white background and textured figures, vintaged "art", and vintage "game" versions.
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MORE VINTAGED VERSIONS.jpg
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by shermjack »

I really think the vintage look works...this deck is shaping up nicely! I look forward to seeing more :drool:
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by dazzleguts »

The pip cards look so much better with the colour softened.

The back looks better as well but there is still an imbalance between the black and red. Just the first thing I thought of but perhaps if you reversed the corners and middle so that black was gridded over red it would keep the pattern but shift the balance. There should be some way to make the black a little more present and break the monotony of the grid.

...All of your card faces have variation in the size and shape of the blacks and reds while the back does not so perhaps introducing a few larger shapes in either colour will help?
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards (wap)

Unread post by BlueToy »

Thanks shermjack and dazzleguts!

I'm working on the backs. Maybe add some leaf form like in the front design of the tuck box. Thinking of "opening up" the grids on the front faces of the "art" pip cards.

Would a repeating geometric pattern work for the backs? Like, say, similar to the Wiener Werkstatte samples shown a couple of posts back? Or do playing card folks really prefer something approaching a "carpet" medallion pattern?

This project is a bit of a challenge for me, actually, since I'm not used to working with bold geometric forms, my current default drawing style being something closer to Art Nouveau.
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by blejanre »

I'm all about patterns. I think that would work a lot better than a carpet-like design for the backs. When you're going with such a bold deviation from the standard, I don't think you need to focus too much on emulating the status quo. As long as the design makes sense, and is internally consistent, you're good to go.
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by Eoghann »

I just wanted to drop in and say WOW! Really liking how this deck is shaping up. Definitely stick with the vintage/faded style. It looks fantastic!

Wonder how it will look like 60 years from now though. :lol:
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by DragonSoul »

I too very much prefer the vintage colors because it distances it more from an "8-bit" look. As for the back and art deck pips (and even the front of the tuck) I still see pixels because you are only using small squares. Yet, in the examples you provided there is a mix of other shapes. Perhaps, incorporating lines, diamonds, etc... in a variety of sizes would help. I like the progress so far!
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by dazzleguts »

Pretty much what I said dragonsoul, great minds think alike ;) :lol:

I like what Ben said about internal consistancy in the design too. That applies to repeating some of the shapes already used, as dragonsoul suggested.

Glad you strayed from Art Nouveau BT, it has been done a lot while I don't think the Werkstatte has been explored enough. This is going to be a great deck :ugdance:
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by BlueToy »

Well, I hope they look the same even after 60 years! Haha

Thanks for the inputs everyone. I'll try to be consistent with the patterns and àstyle.

In the meantime, here's another court card.It's the first card I ever created for the deck. The King of Clubs.

And yes, I also think Wiener Werkstatte sadly hasn't had much publicity in recent times, especially considering how it influenced textile design, among other things. I did try to create a Tarot deck last year which is also inspired by the WW: http://paralumanstudio.blogspot.com/200 ... resom.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (Resom is Moser spelled backwards :D).

-Ly
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by BlueToy »

I am having a hard time with the backs. Attached is an image which isn't the back design. LOL it's just there to illustrate how difficult I'm finding it to create a dynamic bold patterned back. (And yes, I know it looks like tacky vintage wallpapering).

I'm also thinking of dropping the "Art version" altogether and just focusing on launching a campaign for the vintage game version. I wanna try launching this in KS in the future and I figured as it's gonna be my first campaign, I should probably keep things simple and as uncomplicated as I can make it.
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NOT THE BACK.jpg
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by DragonSoul »

I was picturing something a bit less...repeating. Something more complex such as a central design element that is surrounded by a different pattern which is then bordered by another. Kind of like the way you are treating the central joining area in your courts. I'm also looking at the example you posted which has the varying diamond patterns next to a couple of different borders. Of course the more complex, the greater the challenge there is to still keep the back design 2-way.
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by BlueToy »

DragonSoul wrote:I was picturing something a bit less...repeating. Something more complex such as a central design element that is surrounded by a different pattern which is then bordered by another. Kind of like the way you are treating the central joining area in your courts. I'm also looking at the example you posted which has the varying diamond patterns next to a couple of different borders. Of course the more complex, the greater the challenge there is to still keep the back design 2-way.
I know. Which is why i said it wasn't the back card design :D todays attempt at it got really frustrating because I tried to make 3 different patterns for it and all of them looked equally horrible. Haha the good thing is that I don't have a deadline, and I can keep on working on it till I get it right.
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by blejanre »

I'm of a different mind. If that was the back design, it would be enough for me to happily buy the deck. It's humble, it's simple, it fits with the courts. (and as I mentioned, I'm all about patterns)

I think it's a good idea to set aside the "art" deck. Who knows, maybe you'll come back to it with newfound inspiration, or at least a clear idea of how you want it to look. The concept has potential in my opinion, but the game version just "works" a lot more right now.

As for the backs, I almost feel like you need to sit down one night and whip off 20 designs as fast as you can. I get so hung up on things coming out right the first time that it becomes almost impossible to be creative. Shake off the pressure and just make a ton of designs, just fast sketchy concepts. I think that could help give you an idea of where you want to go with it.

Anyways, I'm loving watching this unfold. Looks great
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by BlueToy »

blejanre wrote:I'm of a different mind. If that was the back design, it would be enough for me to happily buy the deck. It's humble, it's simple, it fits with the courts. (and as I mentioned, I'm all about patterns)

I think it's a good idea to set aside the "art" deck. Who knows, maybe you'll come back to it with newfound inspiration, or at least a clear idea of how you want it to look. The concept has potential in my opinion, but the game version just "works" a lot more right now.

As for the backs, I almost feel like you need to sit down one night and whip off 20 designs as fast as you can. I get so hung up on things coming out right the first time that it becomes almost impossible to be creative. Shake off the pressure and just make a ton of designs, just fast sketchy concepts. I think that could help give you an idea of where you want to go with it.

Anyways, I'm loving watching this unfold. Looks great
Thanks! Sometimes simple works. Although, you're right too - I should make a lot more designs. At the very least , it will mean I'll have more choices when the time comes.

I actually tried doing another attempt at a back design (see attachment). The simpler one on the left was inspired by a Josef Hoffmann textile pattern design (see second attachment), and the one on the right's an elaboration of the one on the left. I'm kinda drawn to the right back design - I mean, I can see the potentials for textile design there, but I dunno if it will work as a back design. I also find the left's central pattern, strangely elegant too.
What do you guys think?

-Ly
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NUTHER ATTEMPT AT THE BACKS
NUTHER ATTEMPT AT THE BACKS
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by dazzleguts »

I like the Hoffman pattern but it slides to the right. Could you try shrinking it down enough to fit one more row and column in so that it's balanced?

The previous simple border of the back was nice actually. It's closer to the feel of the rest of the deck. Perhaps the Hoffman pattern could be fit into that? Magicians also prefer to have the border of the back be the same colour as the faces so that a flipped card in a magic trick will not be obvious.
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by BlueToy »

dazzleguts wrote:I like the Hoffman pattern but it slides to the right. Could you try shrinking it down enough to fit one more row and column in so that it's balanced?

The previous simple border of the back was nice actually. It's closer to the feel of the rest of the deck. Perhaps the Hoffman pattern could be fit into that? Magicians also prefer to have the border of the back be the same colour as the faces so that a flipped card in a magic trick will not be obvious.
I totally forgot about border consistency between the front and backs! Thank you for pointing it out. Will apply white borders to them and post these later.

What do you mean about the Hoffmann pattern sliding to the right? Is it the visual flow? Will try to work on that. And maybe another alternate back design too, as Ben suggested earlier.

I'm finding doing reversible patterns to be tough work! Haha
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards (wap)

Unread post by BlueToy »

Also, what do you guys think of MPC as a printer? Like the quality of the recent work they've done? They're one I'm considering for this deck's campaign...
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by dazzleguts »

It's the asymetry of the first Hoffman back, where it doesn't mirror across, only up and down. I was finding it was heavier to the right. But...I've just had a visual flip with the way my mind was perceiving it. When I first saw it the red was reading as ground, probably because it has the largest uninterrupted areas. Just now I saw the black as the ground and the balance became much more even. Would be interesting to see if a white border affects that.

Have to say I really like how that earlier bordered pattern you did fit the rounded corners of the card. The more I look at it the more I like it.
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by BlueToy »

Here's some versions of the two patterns I did earlier, but with different borders. I've also modified the Hoffmann-inspired pattern so that it has vertical and horizontal symmetry.

Any thoughts on which of these have potential?
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some back variations.
some back variations.
-Ly

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BlueToy
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by BlueToy »

I'm planning for the deck to have two separate, reversible Joker designs (you can see both of them at the bottom of the very first attachment in this thread). Here's the first one. Should I retain the square decor at the background or not?
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JOKER A.jpg
JOKER A.jpg (126.31 KiB) Viewed 2164 times
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blejanre
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by blejanre »

The sense that I've got from KS campaigns and assorted comments on the web is that MPC is inferior. I believe it, but as a consumer I'm sure I would be fine with the quality. It's the cardists and magicians and collectors who will want LPCC or EPCC or USPCC.

For card backs, I like 1,2,3 and 5 and am still partial to the "NOT THE BACK" version.

The jokers are fine, but part of me wants you to completely abandon all use of an undivided grid. The planar art is interesting because it's off kilter, clean and logical, but at the same time chaotic and unbalanced. Roll with that. Err on the wild side of the style vs. the mundane.
-Ben
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