PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by BlueToy »

DragonSoul wrote:I was picturing something a bit less...repeating. Something more complex such as a central design element that is surrounded by a different pattern which is then bordered by another. Kind of like the way you are treating the central joining area in your courts. I'm also looking at the example you posted which has the varying diamond patterns next to a couple of different borders. Of course the more complex, the greater the challenge there is to still keep the back design 2-way.
I know. Which is why i said it wasn't the back card design :D todays attempt at it got really frustrating because I tried to make 3 different patterns for it and all of them looked equally horrible. Haha the good thing is that I don't have a deadline, and I can keep on working on it till I get it right.
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by blejanre »

I'm of a different mind. If that was the back design, it would be enough for me to happily buy the deck. It's humble, it's simple, it fits with the courts. (and as I mentioned, I'm all about patterns)

I think it's a good idea to set aside the "art" deck. Who knows, maybe you'll come back to it with newfound inspiration, or at least a clear idea of how you want it to look. The concept has potential in my opinion, but the game version just "works" a lot more right now.

As for the backs, I almost feel like you need to sit down one night and whip off 20 designs as fast as you can. I get so hung up on things coming out right the first time that it becomes almost impossible to be creative. Shake off the pressure and just make a ton of designs, just fast sketchy concepts. I think that could help give you an idea of where you want to go with it.

Anyways, I'm loving watching this unfold. Looks great
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by BlueToy »

blejanre wrote:I'm of a different mind. If that was the back design, it would be enough for me to happily buy the deck. It's humble, it's simple, it fits with the courts. (and as I mentioned, I'm all about patterns)

I think it's a good idea to set aside the "art" deck. Who knows, maybe you'll come back to it with newfound inspiration, or at least a clear idea of how you want it to look. The concept has potential in my opinion, but the game version just "works" a lot more right now.

As for the backs, I almost feel like you need to sit down one night and whip off 20 designs as fast as you can. I get so hung up on things coming out right the first time that it becomes almost impossible to be creative. Shake off the pressure and just make a ton of designs, just fast sketchy concepts. I think that could help give you an idea of where you want to go with it.

Anyways, I'm loving watching this unfold. Looks great
Thanks! Sometimes simple works. Although, you're right too - I should make a lot more designs. At the very least , it will mean I'll have more choices when the time comes.

I actually tried doing another attempt at a back design (see attachment). The simpler one on the left was inspired by a Josef Hoffmann textile pattern design (see second attachment), and the one on the right's an elaboration of the one on the left. I'm kinda drawn to the right back design - I mean, I can see the potentials for textile design there, but I dunno if it will work as a back design. I also find the left's central pattern, strangely elegant too.
What do you guys think?

-Ly
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by dazzleguts »

I like the Hoffman pattern but it slides to the right. Could you try shrinking it down enough to fit one more row and column in so that it's balanced?

The previous simple border of the back was nice actually. It's closer to the feel of the rest of the deck. Perhaps the Hoffman pattern could be fit into that? Magicians also prefer to have the border of the back be the same colour as the faces so that a flipped card in a magic trick will not be obvious.
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by BlueToy »

dazzleguts wrote:I like the Hoffman pattern but it slides to the right. Could you try shrinking it down enough to fit one more row and column in so that it's balanced?

The previous simple border of the back was nice actually. It's closer to the feel of the rest of the deck. Perhaps the Hoffman pattern could be fit into that? Magicians also prefer to have the border of the back be the same colour as the faces so that a flipped card in a magic trick will not be obvious.
I totally forgot about border consistency between the front and backs! Thank you for pointing it out. Will apply white borders to them and post these later.

What do you mean about the Hoffmann pattern sliding to the right? Is it the visual flow? Will try to work on that. And maybe another alternate back design too, as Ben suggested earlier.

I'm finding doing reversible patterns to be tough work! Haha
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards (wap)

Unread post by BlueToy »

Also, what do you guys think of MPC as a printer? Like the quality of the recent work they've done? They're one I'm considering for this deck's campaign...
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by dazzleguts »

It's the asymetry of the first Hoffman back, where it doesn't mirror across, only up and down. I was finding it was heavier to the right. But...I've just had a visual flip with the way my mind was perceiving it. When I first saw it the red was reading as ground, probably because it has the largest uninterrupted areas. Just now I saw the black as the ground and the balance became much more even. Would be interesting to see if a white border affects that.

Have to say I really like how that earlier bordered pattern you did fit the rounded corners of the card. The more I look at it the more I like it.
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by BlueToy »

Here's some versions of the two patterns I did earlier, but with different borders. I've also modified the Hoffmann-inspired pattern so that it has vertical and horizontal symmetry.

Any thoughts on which of these have potential?
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some back variations.
some back variations.
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by BlueToy »

I'm planning for the deck to have two separate, reversible Joker designs (you can see both of them at the bottom of the very first attachment in this thread). Here's the first one. Should I retain the square decor at the background or not?
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by blejanre »

The sense that I've got from KS campaigns and assorted comments on the web is that MPC is inferior. I believe it, but as a consumer I'm sure I would be fine with the quality. It's the cardists and magicians and collectors who will want LPCC or EPCC or USPCC.

For card backs, I like 1,2,3 and 5 and am still partial to the "NOT THE BACK" version.

The jokers are fine, but part of me wants you to completely abandon all use of an undivided grid. The planar art is interesting because it's off kilter, clean and logical, but at the same time chaotic and unbalanced. Roll with that. Err on the wild side of the style vs. the mundane.
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by dazzleguts »

As sprouts would probably mention, traditionally the jokers will be different from each other in some way. Many decks use the same joker figure on both cards but with red for the joker text on one and black for the text on the other, while others will have entirely different joker figures on each. With that in mind you could use both of the designs you are showing.

My first reaction to the card backs is a personal preference for #2. The full bleed, #1, is attractive as well, but you lose the edge match to the faces. If you really like the full bleed it's only a small percentage of the card users that will want the border.
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by shermjack »

I like the second row of backs better, with #2 and #4 being my favorites and leaning towards #2...the jagged edges of #3 is a little unruly...to be honest, I really liked the black bordered backs, but understand that it is better to have white borders to match the faces
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by MagikFingerz »

Borderless would be awesome, but I may be in the minority on that. Secondly, I'd go with #2 on either row. I've never liked big frames like on the #3's and #4's, they only diminish the design imo.

And I'll second Sherman's liking of the black bordered ones, maybe make a black backed AND -faced V2?
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by Eoghann »

As much as I like borderless, I can't help but notice the similarity it would have to Hotcakes.
Image

That said, I think my vote goes to #4 bottom row.
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by DragonSoul »

These are definitely an improvement. If you're going to stick to a repeating pattern borderless would be nice but, I think I like #2 of both rows. I also like the block border of the #4s but, fyi another KS launched today (Duel) which has a sort of similar back design.
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by BlueToy »

blejanre wrote: part of me wants you to completely abandon all use of an undivided grid. The planar art is interesting because it's off kilter, clean and logical, but at the same time chaotic and unbalanced. Roll with that. Err on the wild side of the style vs. the mundane.
Thanks for this. Will keep this in mind when doing my modifications on the images. I admit that at times, I subconsciously fall back to the "grids" when making the forms and patterns in the images.

I'm all for printing with those other 3 printers, my main concern is whether or not the art of the deck is appealing enough to be able to gather enough pledges to pull off a the print run scale required by those printers. Maybe a stretch goal or something? But it's still too soon to tell anyway, since the deck still needs fine-tuning.

I actually like the borderless backs too - they seem more dramatic, but I acknowledge that they might be problematic too.

I've seen the Hotcakes and the Duel decks - I really like both! :D And yes, I can see the similarities to the back design I made (though I did cite my inspiration for the design). I think one of the reasons why this deck I'm making and those two look similar is because of how the Wiener Werkstatte has influenced graphic design - you can even see traces of its influence up till 70s art and design. That said, I'll try to keep the art and style of this deck more distinct from the other two.

Anyway, I tried doing a black-faced version of the cards as per MagikFingerz's suggestion, just to see how they'd look like. And, having seen them... well, I'm still trying to get used to the idea. :D
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by BlueToy »

I've also trying out a new look for the box. Below is a simulated tuck box design, with a strong Wiener Werkstatte aesthetic.

It's interesting how the direction of this project has changed much since I first posted about it.

Edited to add: how do designers do their simulated assembled tuck box images? Is there like a program or an app that they use to make things easier? I had to nick an image of a plain tuck box off google and add the design to it via Photoshop.
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by shermjack »

I really like the black face card and would love to see more! :D You can start with the faded deck and have the black deck as a stretch goal. :drool: Also like the tuck box.

The way this deck is shaping up, I don't think you will have a problem with going with LPCC or EPCC as their print run minimum is 1,000 decks.
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by BlueToy »

shermjack wrote:I really like the black face card and would love to see more! :D You can start with the faded deck and have the black deck as a stretch goal. :drool: Also like the tuck box.

The way this deck is shaping up, I don't think you will have a problem with going with LPCC or EPCC as their print run minimum is 1,000 decks.
Here's two black... Jacks - I realized I haven't been posting images of the Jacks much.

Just to explain, I conceptualized the Jacks to be more like... courtiers or something similar. So each is holding a "court object": a fan, a snuff box, a horn (to herald?), and a cup (cup-bearer?).

I hope I get to go with either LPCC or EPCC - though honestly, I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea of a print run of 1,000 decks! :D I mean, what do I do with the extra?! I'm relatively new to the playing card world, so any suggestions regarding running a KS campaign, etc, would be very much appreciated.
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by shermjack »

I like the JoC, but there seems to be a little too much empty space with the JoH...maybe make his hand raise the cup to his mouth halfway between the heart pip and his face? I like the concept of the black deck so far, but after looking through the thread again, I also think a blue deck (similar to the sample pattern you provided above) would also be nice.

Though I have never run a KS project before (I have backed a ton of them though), I think 1,000 decks is manageable. From my experience, projects that use LPCC and EPCC as printers range from 5-8K on average and higher if you want to push the limits on what you do with the cards and tucks (i.e. foil, embossing, etc.) I would say that, at a minimum, the successful 5-8K projects have at least 200-250 backers, half of which will pledge for 2 or more decks. If your project is successful, you should have at least 500 decks accounted for and hopefully would have covered your costs (including fulfilment, which I understand is always under-estimated)...the extras you could sell via a website or eBay.
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by BlueToy »

Thanks for the advice. Will keep that in mind. I'll try to email those printers and get quotes to get an idea of the costs involved.

I originally wanted to launch this with 2 other decks - a Tarot and Lenormand one, but as these printers don't do tarot size, I may have to set aside those other two decks for the moment.

I just hope EPCC and LPCC does fulfillment! I understand it can become quite a nightmare!

Also, pardon my ignorance, but what exactly do you mean by a blue version? Black fronts, with blue patterned backs, or... black and blue fronts (sounds like bludgeoned faces!) no reds, and blue patterned backs?
shermjack wrote:I like the JoC, but there seems to be a little too much empty space with the JoH...maybe make his hand raise the cup to his mouth halfway between the heart pip and his face? I like the concept of the black deck so far, but after looking through the thread again, I also think a blue deck (similar to the sample pattern you provided above) would also be nice.

Though I have never run a KS project before (I have backed a ton of them though), I think 1,000 decks is manageable. From my experience, projects that use LPCC and EPCC as printers range from 5-8K on average and higher if you want to push the limits on what you do with the cards and tucks (i.e. foil, embossing, etc.) I would say that, at a minimum, the successful 5-8K projects have at least 200-250 backers, half of which will pledge for 2 or more decks. If your project is successful, you should have at least 500 decks accounted for and hopefully would have covered your costs (including fulfilment, which I understand is always under-estimated)...the extras you could sell via a website or eBay.
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by shermjack »

BlueToy wrote: I just hope EPCC and LPCC does fulfillment! I understand it can become quite a nightmare!

Also, pardon my ignorance, but what exactly do you mean by a blue version? Black fronts, with blue patterned backs, or... black and blue fronts (sounds like bludgeoned faces!) no reds, and blue patterned backs?

Legends does fulfilment

Sorry for the confusion about the blue, I was just making a suggestion for another deck color (not that you need it) as I thought that the Blue/Black patterned fabric you showed as an example was anice color combination and would make a nice companion deck to the red deck.
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by BlueToy »

shermjack wrote:Sorry for the confusion about the blue, I was just making a suggestion for another deck color (not that you need it) as I thought that the Blue/Black patterned fabric you showed as an example was anice color combination and would make a nice companion deck to the red deck.
I see what you mean about the pattern. I've tried applying a blue color scheme to the samples in the first image - one done on an off-white background and the other on a black background. Seems like a tough choice for me! :? At the end of the day, the second deck will have to be one of the either the red-black. blue-black or blue-white variants (and that is if ever the campaign actually gets past a stretch goal!).

(also, I'm not sure, but I think I tried modelling this queen after Bette Davis)

The second pic has black background samples of the pip cards, the second jester, and an off-white sample of the Ace of Spades.

I'm not sure what text should go in the Ace of Spade, but I'm thinking of going with the visual treatment done in the sample. What do you guys think?
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by shermjack »

Wow, tough choice as I really like them all! How would a mix of the red and blue in a single deck look...use the red for diamonds & hearts and the blue for the spades & clubs? Sorry for making suggestions of more decks instead of less :oops: Regardless, I agree that when you launch, you need to only start with one deck.

Really looking forward to this deck though...I will definitely get a few of whatever you decide to go with :ugdance:
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by blejanre »

I can't honestly say that I'm loving either the black cards or the blue color scheme. Shermjack's idea for both blue and red in one deck is a good one, but I think one colour would give stronger impression (I vote red).

I am loving the ace of spades. It looks damn fine and not overstated. I think the amount of writing on the pip is good, but I would ditch the "inspired by WW" part and sub in something else, the date or country of manufacture or your name or something.
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by dazzleguts »

I like shermjack's idea of blue for the black suits and traditional red for the other 2. Would have to see it though since the bue is more subdued and might not be a strong enough partner for the red.

Also like the spades and am glad to see the source acknowledged with "inspired by..."
Perhaps some of the text could go below and/or above the spade to allow more room for larger text within.
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by blejanre »

dazzleguts wrote:
Also like the spades and am glad to see the source acknowledged with "inspired by..."
I'm glad to see it too, but I think it would work better on the tuck.
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by BlueToy »

My name's actually in the first line of the AoS. :) I like the idea of putting the "inspired by..." part in the box. Maybe on the back? Will keep that in mind. BUT what texts are usually on the AoS - especially the modern custom ones seen in KickStarter?

Below are variants of the remaining three aces: plain big suits, plain small suits, and decorative big suits. I tried doing a decorative version of the small suits but didn't like them. Anyway, which of these approaches do you guys think is the best? Thanks!
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blejanre
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by blejanre »

ooh, I was going to suggest the small ones until I scrolled down to the big fancy. Go with those for sure. It's a part of the deck where it really works to have extra detail, makes the product as a whole more interesting. Kind of hard to tell without a side by side, but if they're not already, I would make the other three aces just a tad smaller in width than the AoS.

Lookin good :mrgreen:

info that can be found on ace of spades:

name of deck
name of designer
name of design company
name of distributor
date of original design
country/city of design
country/city of manufacture
date of manufacture
name of manufacturer
the words "playing cards"
any patent info
any other number that may be pertinent
a dedication? (haven't seen it, but why not?)
catchphrase
something in latin
-Ben
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shermjack
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Re: PlanarenKarten - Planar Art Playing Cards

Unread post by shermjack »

I definitely think that the decorative aces would work the best, though I think that the patterns could use some work...for example, the black square in the diamond is a little too bold and takes away from the diamond look as the eyes focus on the black square...same thing with black lines through the heart, too much black I feel...also less red with the clubs. You also seem to have two different styles for the club pips, short & fat (as in the small pip AoC) as well as thin & long (as in the big pip AoC)...I like the short & fat AoC as feel it matches the AoS better while the thin & long reminds me of an airplane silhouette.
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