branded vs. unbranded

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branded vs. unbranded

Unread post by edgybros »

we're doing the very early stages of our next project. we're starting with the idea of branded vs. unbranded bicycle decks and if anyone here has a preference as a collector.

we also want to know if there are other companies that anyone feels are as good as bicycle and if that makes a difference when collecting. in short, does it have to be a branded bicycle deck to make it onto your shelf? how far off that path would you go, and will the kickstarter world follow?

our chief concerns are quality, both of the design and the materials themselves and of the timeliness of the fulfillment by the company to the creator so they can pass them along to the backers. all suggestions are welcome.
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Re: branded vs. unbranded

Unread post by volantangel »

Definitely doesnt have to be branded to be on my shelf, preference depends simply on the design, does the logo add on or take away from the overall design. Thats the main difference for me.
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Re: branded vs. unbranded

Unread post by montecarlojoe »

I agree - the design is more important than the brand (be it Bicycle, Bee, Tally Ho etc)

Leaving branding off leaves more room for YOUR design - which is a good thing.

You may draw some people with branding, but themarket is so saturated now that even hardened Bike collectors are thinking twice.

The question of quality / other printers is a different one than branding - you can print at USPCC without using one of thier brands (i.e. Bicycle etc), and the material quality is then obviously just as good as any official Bicycle product.
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Re: branded vs. unbranded

Unread post by MagikFingerz »

I've been saturated on Bicycle decks for a while now, so I almost always prefer Unbranded over Branded. But if the design is good, I'll buy it regardless of branding.

Like Joe said, branding and the choice of printer is two different things. I suppose the only printer that has been accepted by enough people as a rival to USPCC is the Expert Playing Card Company. If you were hoping to find a cheap local (domestic) factory, then you'd have to sacrifice quality and reputation.
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Re: branded vs. unbranded

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

Feel free to post my "out-of-band" response here if you'd like. I won't bother to try to recapitulate that epic message I wrote in response to your initial query over on the kickstarter.com message system.

I think - as I said - you're going to be surprised at the answers - especially if you are one of the people that think the Bicycle logo is important to collectors any more. Basically it boils down to the fact that even the (formerly) hardened Bike fanatics are buying what pleases them these days. "Quality above quantity" is one of the recent buzz-phrases and almost everyone would rather see something that looks good than have that logo just taking up space on the front of your deck(s).
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Re: branded vs. unbranded

Unread post by Eoghann »

I prefer unbranded, definitely. I wouldn't mind branded so much if the logo weren't being slapped on just to boost sales, which very often is the case. If the artwork and project is strong enough, I see no need to brand it with anything.

As for printers, I understand the hurdles USPCC puts in front of an artist can leave a bitter taste, but they're the top dog for a reason. They constantly hit their marks on quality and responsibility. As MF said, EPCC seems to be the new guy who might give USPCC a run for it's money.

If you ever decide to go with another printer, please do extensive research on them. Print some sample decks to make sure tuck, stock, finish, registration, colors, trimming and even cellophane are the best they can be. Send some samples out to magicians, cardists and collectors knowledgable in their fields. What might seem "good enough" for you might be completely different for them.
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Re: branded vs. unbranded

Unread post by edgybros »

thanks for the input so far, everybody. can anyone suggest an epcc campaign that rivals the better uspcc ones for quality on kickstarter? something we could study? we're big believers in doing our homework, so we'd like to look at some examples.
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Re: branded vs. unbranded

Unread post by Eoghann »

edgybros wrote:thanks for the input so far, everybody. can anyone suggest an epcc campaign that rivals the better uspcc ones for quality on kickstarter? something we could study? we're big believers in doing our homework, so we'd like to look at some examples.
No EPCC campaigns that I know of. Jackson is doing the Limited Edition independence tucks with EPCC though.

Paul from Encarded has a limited run of the Zenith deck just around the corner and it looks phenomenal.
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Re: branded vs. unbranded

Unread post by MagikFingerz »

edgybros wrote:thanks for the input so far, everybody. can anyone suggest an epcc campaign that rivals the better uspcc ones for quality on kickstarter? something we could study? we're big believers in doing our homework, so we'd like to look at some examples.
What many seems to have done is request the same stock/finish as the Exquisites from Conjuring Arts. Which I agree handles pretty darn well.

I'm not sure if there's been a kickstarter campaign with epcc-printed cards that's been fulfilled yet, someone correct me if there is.
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Re: branded vs. unbranded

Unread post by Mike Ratledge »

Take a look at Lorenzo Gaggiotti's "Heretic" deck that is exclusively previewed here on UC. It's going to be printed by Expert PCC. I arranged for Bill Kalush to quote the project for him, and I haven't really been given the OK to post this yet, but Lorenzo will forgive me for telling everybody that they are having lunch tomorrow in NYC.
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Re: branded vs. unbranded

Unread post by nECr0MaNCeD »

I'll echo what everyone else says about branded vs. unbranded. I have never been concerned with future value as I will never sell my cards but when I first started I assumed the branded decks were more desirable to collect. The good folks here set me straight... :o

As for other companies I have never owned an EPCC deck so can't say. I own a set of Federal 52s (yes branded) and trust Jackson's opinion on this. I pledged the Independence deck so I'll know soon enough....
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Re: branded vs. unbranded

Unread post by sastian »

wow, you guys are making me rethink my Bike branded deck....
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Re: branded vs. unbranded

Unread post by Jamm Pakd Cards »

This is all good information, I still have been going back and forth on my deck Coat of Arms. I still am not sure which way I am going to go, branded or unbranded. Great post.
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Re: branded vs. unbranded

Unread post by edgybros »

i have been googling like crazy and i can't seem to find any contact info on epcc, nor any kind of website. does anyone know how to even contact them for price quotes, samples, etc?
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Re: branded vs. unbranded

Unread post by Sher »

sastian wrote:wow, you guys are making me rethink my Bike branded deck....
Well, I don't think it will really hurt you if you do put the Bicycle logo on your deck, if that has been your initial concept. I think the point is that it's not a necessity as some may like to think, and that unbranded is fine as long as the design and artwork is done well. I don't think you'll get major points off for going with the Bicycle logo.
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Re: branded vs. unbranded

Unread post by Eoghann »

It would be neat if you could make the logo a part of the artwork rather than something that's on top of it. Like sastian making the logo out of Celtic knots, or jamm packed giving the logo scrollwork and embroidery like on the deck he's working on. But I think Bicycle is really touchy about how their logo is displayed, with little to no modification of the original design. It's for that reason that on many decks the logo just feels out of place.
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Re: branded vs. unbranded

Unread post by nECr0MaNCeD »

edgybros wrote:i have been googling like crazy and i can't seem to find any contact info on epcc, nor any kind of website. does anyone know how to even contact them for price quotes, samples, etc?

The Expert Playing Card Company is a project of The Conjuring Arts Research Center. Shoot them an e-mail, I am sure they'll be glad to help.

http://conjuringarts.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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