Cardistry Training Decks

[shadowkat]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/19 ... iner-decks" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am really new to flourishing and am wondering what you think of this project as flourishers. They seem really great. I am hesitant because it seems the best level is the 60.00 level in which you receive 5 training decks. Also this is the statement under risks and challenges:

There might be a risk in which the production process has a major dilema. In the case that it does, Portals Creations will start another project to remake the trainer decks. In the case that the decks cannot be remade, they will become the most rare trainer decks in existence.

The last sentence reads to me: if they aren't made they will be rare, but if they aren't made they won't exist... Am I missing something?

With all the great new decks of cards coming out, I want to spend my money wisely. What are the experienced flourishers advice here? Thank you!

[volantangel]

Im no flourisher but im pretty sure plastic isnt going to behave like cards. Why would anyone want to buy a product thats considerably more expensive than a basic deck of cards that doesnt behave like a deck of cards, unless you want this to be the medium you work with from now on.

[shadowkat]

I understand your point. Thank you for your reply.

[MagikFingerz]

I agree with volant. If you want to learn flourishing with actual paper cards, then you should practice with paper cards. However quicker you might learn flourishes with this will be offset by having to readjust to a normal deck, and if you treat your decks well enough you shouldn't wear them out quickly enough to make this a "good investment".

Thanks for posting this though, it's an interesting concept and I'd have tried it out if it wasn't as expensive as it is. Maybe if someone was willing to pledge for a brick and sell/ship the rest to others.

[shadowkat]

I understand the expense. They seem like they would be rather time consuming to make. The brick price cuts the price in half. One wonders if he would just start with the lowered price if he wouldn't sell more. Thank you for your reply.

[Mr. Hollowed Skull]

Although everyone here has a good point, I do feel that the whole different feel thing has been taken into consideration. I don't think this kind of thing would be released if it was hard to switch from paper decks to this one. And as the Magic-Con videos have shown, many XCM flourishers used and liked this deck , including people like Dan Buck and TheCuso. The creator himself is a flourisher and he wouldn't release this deck if he didn't think it worked.

That being said, I wouldn't pay this much money until I see a serious XCM guy review it and like it

[volantangel]

Although everyone here has a good point, I do feel that the whole different feel thing has been taken into consideration. I don't think this kind of thing would be released if it was hard to switch from paper decks to this one. And as the Magic-Con videos have shown, many XCM flourishers used and liked this deck , including people like Dan Buck and TheCuso. The creator himself is a flourisher and he wouldn't release this deck if he didn't think it worked.

That being said, I wouldn't pay this much money until I see a serious XCM guy review it and like it

Well its simple, people used to working with cards wont find it difficult to handle pieces of plastic where the packets wouldnt split apart. But it definitely wouldnt be the same for someone moving from this into cards, keeping the packets together and keeping it looking clean is a challenge even to the pros when they are doing difficult moves. And honestly this greatly limits what you can do with a deck of cards, single card aerial moves are definitely out of the question. So even from a beginner point of view i would stay away, unless you want to relearn all the moves you have picked up.

[MagikFingerz]

I'll have to agree with volant again, holding packets of loose cards is quite different from holding blocks. Preventing them from falling and keeping them square requires neuromuscular control that you just can't get from blocks. The only potentially redeeming factor of the blocks would be if learning a flourish with the blocks take significantly less time than with a regular deck, so much that it more than makes up for the "extra step" of moving from blocks to cards.

And well-known flourishers endorsing the product in Magic-Con videos is just that; endorsements. If there was anyone at Magic-Con that DIDN'T like this, we wouldn't know about it because they wouldn't show that video or even film it in the first place.

Welcome to the forum, Mr. Hollowed Skull I agree with you too btw, I'd be interested in seeing a review from a more reliable source.

[volantangel]

No actually, i dont think a seasoned flourisher would be the one you want to hear from, there wouldnt be problems to go from cards -> plastic, but going from plastic -> cards would pose many problems. Give the "deck" to a beginner, have him perform a standard flourish properly using this "deck", and have him perform the same thing with cards immediately afterwards. Better still, get two complete beginners, throw one a deck of these, and one with a deck of bikes, see who learns a flourish better. But unless the source is independent, its not going to be reliable as well.

[MagikFingerz]

No actually, i dont think a seasoned flourisher would be the one you want to hear from, there wouldnt be problems to go from cards -> plastic, but going from plastic -> cards would pose many problems. Give the "deck" to a beginner, have him perform a standard flourish properly using this "deck", and have him perform the same thing with cards immediately afterwards. Better still, get two complete beginners, throw one a deck of these, and one with a deck of bikes, see who learns a flourish better. But unless the source is independent, its not going to be reliable as well.

Well, you'd need a much bigger sample size to test it properly. Different people learn at different speeds, so it would need to be a big enough group of people to represent the average population.

Ugh, I need my summer break...

[volantangel]

haha of course, a minimum sample size of 30 for each group is recommended, plot the learning times, you should get a rough normal distribution, get the mean and then we would really know the answer to whether these are really effective.

Haha Tom a viable a thesis subject for you ? Im just at the tail end of mine, graduation is on the horizon !

[MagikFingerz]

Nah, apart from grip strength, the muscles of the hand aren't the most interesting in Sports Science terms. Sadly, I might add

[Magic_Orthodoxy]

wow, don't know how I missed this, didn't come up on my normal feed. I agree somewhat from the above comments, but card blocks have been around for years - and magicians and cardists alike have used them to train. So I for one think this is a good idea. Plus, from a collector POV, they sure are interesting cards.

[volantangel]

Well... Its here because its not technically a deck. Its pieces of plastic cut into the dimension of cards, so I felt it belonged here more as a tool rather than over in the New Custom Decks.

Cardists maybe ? But magicians ? You sure cant practice sleight of hand with these. Never heard of these before though, any idea who might have used these for practice and given it some proper endorsement ?

[MagikFingerz]

Well... Its here because its not technically a deck. Its pieces of plastic cut into the dimension of cards, so I felt it belonged here more as a tool rather than over in the New Custom Decks.

Cardists maybe ? But magicians ? You sure cant practice sleight of hand with these. Never heard of these before though, any idea who might have used these for practice and given it some proper endorsement ?

Magician's would probably use it for learning the Classic Pass or variations of it. That's the only application I can think of, though it is quite a big one.

[shadowkat]

[quote="volantangel"]Well... Its here because its not technically a deck. Its pieces of plastic cut into the dimension of cards, so I felt it belonged here more as a tool rather than over in the New Custom Decks.


I posted it here because I wanted to get the opinion of flouishers and to me it seems much more geared to flourishers than magicians.

[volantangel]

Well... Its here because its not technically a deck. Its pieces of plastic cut into the dimension of cards, so I felt it belonged here more as a tool rather than over in the New Custom Decks.


I posted it here because I wanted to get the opinion of flouishers and to me it seems much more geared to flourishers than magicians.

Yup Agreed